Livingston - all the threads merged

[thruthenight]

If we could make it happen, he would be an upgrade. Wouldn't be surprised if we could get him here for 6 months to get him in the shop window

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, mozam76 said:

 

The only player I can think of who had a “name” as such, promised loads but never actually appeared, was David Luongo. French guy we signed at the same time as Tony Andreu. This was a couple of years before Hippolyte though. 

Could you be thinking of Moses Duckrell? He was in the squad with Hippolyte, and never made an appearance. 

That's the fella.

[crispy]

2 hours ago, thruthenight said:

If we could make it happen, he would be an upgrade. Wouldn't be surprised if we could get him here for 6 months to get him in the shop window

Interesting. The question I’m asking myself is in which position could we offer him the game time he seemingly is seeking?

[Freedom Farter]

52 minutes ago, crispy said:

Interesting. The question I’m asking myself is in which position could we offer him the game time he seemingly is seeking?

Centre mid but don't get your hopes up. QP outbid us for a player last summer then St Johnstone and Dundee obviously can too.

[CharlieWhisky]

16 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Surely its obvious by now youre paying his wages?

WyScout etc., all say hes contracted to you and TS Galaxys website doesnt list him at all.

I suspect you've gambled, paid a fee and given him a 4yr deal, and lost. I dont think Martindale even pretended any different until your GBE application failed and he realised how bad it would look.

Bit of a weird lie to make up. He also said there was no up front fee but I suppose that’s a lie too.

[RandomGuy.]

46 minutes ago, CharlieWhisky said:

Bit of a weird lie to make up. He also said there was no up front fee but I suppose that’s a lie too.

As i say, his story about it was completely different until the work permit was denied and he started getting questioned about why they done the deal. He then got defensive and claimed it hadnt cost you anything (to sign a promising 20yo who had a contract at another club).

You honestly think TS Galaxy have allowed a young player to rot in a foreign country for 6 months, with zero financial benefit and zero idea when it ends, while paying all of his wages?

If what Martindale is saying is true then youre floating very close to the wind of dual ownership (one club pays a player, but the other is the only one who can play him) and FIFA sanctions too.

Edited January 4 by RandomGuy.

[Freedom Farter]

26 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You honestly think TS Galaxy have allowed a young player to rot in a foreign country for 6 months, with zero financial benefit and zero idea when it ends, while paying all of his wages?

He was a youth player for them, on a lowly youth player wage, listed on websites as primarily part of their reserve not first team. He had played for the first team but wasn't a regular starter. There is potential long term financial benefit for them, they'd be owed much of any future sell on fee. It will end this month, either with him returning to TS Galaxy if the work permit application is rejected again or with him staying at Livi if its successful. At worst, a player they didn't immediately need for their first team will've received higher level training for six months. At best, it will've just been a delay in the transfer. That's not an inconceivable deal for them to have gone for.

[Durnford]

Said at the time that I though the chances of getting Teto clearance were particularly slim as we'd use a visitor visa to get him into the country in the first instance instead of doing it the proper way.

I believe Martindale said they'd used the same process for Lawell but we were fortunate there and, of course, Nigeria are a lot higher up the world rankings than South Africa so that was another hurdle.

There are still ways of doing it but none are as easy as simply reapplying in my opinion. So long as we have a good legal team (?) and a supportive local MP.

[Livi]

52 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

He was a youth player for them, on a lowly youth player wage, listed on websites as primarily part of their reserve not first team. He had played for the first team but wasn't a regular starter. There is potential long term financial benefit for them, they'd be owed much of any future sell on fee. It will end this month, either with him returning to TS Galaxy if the work permit application is rejected again or with him staying at Livi if its successful. At worst, a player they didn't immediately need for their first team will've received higher level training for six months. At best, it will've just been a delay in the transfer. That's not an inconceivable deal for them to have gone for.

Thats some spin you have put on this . This was a car crash deal that has cost money for little return so far. Especially in a club forecasting £400k plus losses this year.

 

you seriously just an ordinary Livi fan

Edited January 4 by Livi

[Durnford]

16 hours ago, thruthenight said:

I'm not a lawyer, but surely if the home office have declined a work permit, and he's training with us occasionally, then legally we can't be paying him? Otherwise we'd be paying him...to do work?

An interesting point; if this was say other business than football we could play him and he could train in South Africa or wherever; it would, in theory, be far easier to get him a temporary UK work visa as an existing employee. I do it all the time.

Not sure how that works in the footballing world though.

[Freedom Farter]

42 minutes ago, Livi said:

Thats some spin you have put on this . This was a car crash deal that has cost money for little return so far. Especially in a club forecasting £400k plus losses this year.

 

you seriously just an ordinary Livi fan

Are you Neil Hogarth's pet rat?

[Livi]

13 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Are you Neil Hogarth's pet rat?

Nice  avoidance/ diversion 

 

Ps No!!!!

Edited January 4 by Livi

[Livi]

Just now, Livi said:

Nice  avoidance/ diversion 

 

Ps No!

 

[crispy]

2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

He was a youth player for them, on a lowly youth player wage, listed on websites as primarily part of their reserve not first team. He had played for the first team but wasn't a regular starter. There is potential long term financial benefit for them, they'd be owed much of any future sell on fee. It will end this month, either with him returning to TS Galaxy if the work permit application is rejected again or with him staying at Livi if its successful. At worst, a player they didn't immediately need for their first team will've received higher level training for six months. At best, it will've just been a delay in the transfer. That's not an inconceivable deal for them to have gone for.

Makes sense to me.

Without knowing the numbers involved, I can’t imagine it’s cost much more than the Stokes ‘trial’ that didn’t work out but worth the gamble I thought. A club as small as ours will have to be creative or take gambles with an expectation of quick turnover if potential gems don’t materialise on the park.  

[CharlieWhisky]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

As i say, his story about it was completely different until the work permit was denied and he started getting questioned about why they done the deal. He then got defensive and claimed it hadnt cost you anything (to sign a promising 20yo who had a contract at another club).

You honestly think TS Galaxy have allowed a young player to rot in a foreign country for 6 months, with zero financial benefit and zero idea when it ends, while paying all of his wages?

If what Martindale is saying is true then youre floating very close to the wind of dual ownership (one club pays a player, but the other is the only one who can play him) and FIFA sanctions too.

As with so many issues at this club, we only have the crumbs in the public domain to live off. 

Another court case wouldn’t go amiss though, have we had one for employing an illegal migrant worker before?

[ATLIS]

Of note, the OPCCO6 address seems to have been changed to Hogarth's address apparently. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Fucking waste of my time having these c***s on ignore when you all keep quoting them.

This shite is only going to get worse with no football for a couple of weeks, they'll be piling it on.

Edited January 4 by LIVIFOREVER

[Freedom Farter]

23 hours ago, Menga Bus said:

To get attacking players on the park we need to bin the back 5, it hasn’t even improved us defensively, instead we just concede and don’t score 

Could be on the cards. The team has ended a few recent matches in a back four formation. Against Hearts it was even the good old 4-2-3-1.  Yengi has given a new wide attack option. Donnellan by all accounts is well-suited to right back in a four. Martindale recently said Bradley had asked for a loan this window but was assured by Martindale he'd be featuring in the Livi team more (Bradley's best role is right mid in a 4-2-3-1, as we know). There's also this fortnight break and training camp which allows time for a new formation to be rehearsed. Final consideration is the changed situation between now and the season onset. Back then the thinking might've been that a solid but sterile team with three centre backs could grind out enough results for league safety. What's needed now is wins especially at home, not stuffy draws, so a more attacking set up makes sense.

However, Martindale said he's looking to bring in another centre back which might indicate he's sticking with the back three/five. If so, we just saw Hearts using the 3-4-2-1 against us, showing how its supposed to be done. It can work but its up to Martindale to pick the correct players in the correct places and give them the correct instructions.

Edit: Something both Motherwell and Hearts showed with Bair and Vargas, respectively, is that in the 3-4-2-1 you need one of your two attacking mids/second strikers to be willing and able to run beyond your centre forward. All season, we've not had that. Sangare a little but he's barely featured and is probably on his way out now anyway.

Edited January 4 by Freedom Farter

[LIVIFOREVER]

16 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Could be on the cards. The team has ended a few recent matches in a back four formation. Against Hearts it was even the good old 4-2-3-1.  Yengi has given a new wide attack option. Donnellan by all accounts is well-suited to right back in a four. Martindale recently said Bradley had asked for a loan this window but was assured by Martindale he'd be featuring in the Livi team more (Bradley's best role is right mid in a 4-2-3-1, as we know). There's also this fortnight break and training camp which allows time for a new formation to be rehearsed. Final consideration is the changed situation between now and the season onset. Back then the thinking might've been that a solid but sterile team with three centre backs could grind out enough results for league safety. What's needed now is wins especially at home, not stuffy draws, so a more attacking set up makes sense.

However, Martindale said he's looking to bring in another centre back which might indicate he's sticking with the back three/five. If so, we just saw Hearts using the 3-4-2-1 against us, showing how its supposed to be done. It can work but its up to Martindale to pick the correct players in the correct places and give them the correct instructions.

Edit: Something both Motherwell and Hearts showed with Bair and Vargas, respectively, is that in the 3-4-2-1 you need one of your two attacking mids/second strikers to be willing and able to run beyond your centre forward. All season, we've not had that. Sangare a little but he's barely featured and is probably on his way out now anyway.

Yeah and it was working up till the Motherwell 2-0 win, but this run of winless games has taken us to the bottom, and we're in danger of being cut adrift, it was a much better looking team against Hearts. We need to be able to do what Hearts did too though, when seeing out a game, 9 mins ET just drifted away as they game managed it no problem. I'f we are a goal up with 10 or so mins to go, we have to be solid and see the game out, keeping the ball in the corner wasting time like buggery.

[Durnford]

1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said:

Could be on the cards. The team has ended a few recent matches in a back four formation. Against Hearts it was even the good old 4-2-3-1.  Yengi has given a new wide attack option. Donnellan by all accounts is well-suited to right back in a four. Martindale recently said Bradley had asked for a loan this window but was assured by Martindale he'd be featuring in the Livi team more (Bradley's best role is right mid in a 4-2-3-1, as we know). There's also this fortnight break and training camp which allows time for a new formation to be rehearsed. Final consideration is the changed situation between now and the season onset. Back then the thinking might've been that a solid but sterile team with three centre backs could grind out enough results for league safety. What's needed now is wins especially at home, not stuffy draws, so a more attacking set up makes sense.

However, Martindale said he's looking to bring in another centre back which might indicate he's sticking with the back three/five. If so, we just saw Hearts using the 3-4-2-1 against us, showing how its supposed to be done. It can work but its up to Martindale to pick the correct players in the correct places and give them the correct instructions.

Edit: Something both Motherwell and Hearts showed with Bair and Vargas, respectively, is that in the 3-4-2-1 you need one of your two attacking mids/second strikers to be willing and able to run beyond your centre forward. All season, we've not had that. Sangare a little but he's barely featured and is probably on his way out now anyway.

If the story about Martindale telling those, that weren't up for the fight, to call their agents; I wouldn't be too surprised to see a number of replacements coming in.

TBH the way Devlin's gone off the boil recently makes me wonder if he's one of the ones seeking an out.