Guest juan villa-lobos ramirez Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Tormod, how acceptable was that for you tonight, is it the end of our campaign or do you still think vogts is the man for the job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHU1967 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Sorry Tormod, There is no way that you can justify that shocking display of ineptitude. I thought for a minute that I was watching the U-21 game. How bad were we? Marking was appalling, midfield was non-existent, and the forwards were, well let's just say they were poor. Berti is not the man for the Scotland job. We will never have the most technically gifted players on the planet, but you would expect some team cohesion and spirit. With Herr Vogts in charge we've none of either. A sad night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poker King Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I'm not trying to defend Berti here, I've been saying that he should go for long enough now. But say Berti had walked after the Norway game, and ##insert name here## was put in charge for last nights game. What do you think he would/could have done differently? As far as I can see the only mistake Berti made last night was taking Thompson off for McCulloch. I would have put him on for Crawford. Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Id have played three at the back and three up front. Their only threat was that Dadu guy, who we could have dealt with better against a 3 I think. My problem was why Gary Teale, who at least has pace, and Robbie Winters weren't even in the squad. George Graham is the man. We are rank and at least he will get us a few 0-0s against the better teams and 1-0s against dross like Moldova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Honest Bob Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Well had he gone on Saturday, the likelihood is that Tommy Burns would probably have been in charge last night. It will take time to put a new man in so we wouldn't have got the benefit of the 'playing for a new manager-extra bit of effort' scenario last night. As far as last night's team goes, I agree Thomson should've stayed on. Crawford couldn't hit a coo in the arse with a banjo, so put him in the same taxi as Berti. Did we need a holding midfielder in a game that we really had to win? I'd like to have seen some different cover added to the squad for the left hand side. Once Naysmith's a doubt that's us snookered! Ian Murray has never played left back in his life - and it showed! Other than that, unfortunately for us time will be the healer! We've got about 2 or 3 years until the next Euro champ qualifiers. That's gotta be what we're aiming for now (this world cup camapign is buggered!) let's try get the right man in the job this time, and let the rollercoaster that is supporting Scotland begin again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Macleod Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Aye fair play. Last night was bad. I have mixed feelings about this now to be honest. On the one hand I believe that we ought to be beating these teams like Moldova. The performance was bad and they did lack cohesion. On the other hand though I still feel sorry for Berti. His squad was down to the bare bones on Saturday and then he has to make 3 changes for last nights game in Caldwell, Thompson and Crawford. I'm not sure if Cameron was a tactical move or whether Richard Hughes had an injury. But what I'm trying to say is that that is dificult for any manager to deal with. Especially when the team/squad he has got is already very poor and very young, very inexperienced and lacking the experienced guys. With the options Berti has upfront I'm surprised we scored last night as I don't rate Thompson very highly and Crawford is utter shite IMO. But both players did reasonably well. Particularly Crawford which pains me to say. Moldova is not an easy place to go. The pitch was shite and the Moldovans set up to frustrate a Scotland team lacking the gile to create clear cut chances. It's also worth examining the performances of some of the players. Fletcher for example was very poor IMO. It wasn't a tactical problem. It looked to me as if he had a shit game and was desperately lacking match sharpness. But what other options did Berti have??? Similarly, Stephen Caldwell looked cumbersome but what options were there at the back??? Anderson and Webster looked ok on Saturday but then Anderson goes and gets a knock and you have to change it again. Naysmith, Fletcher, Thompson and Crawford are all failing to hold down a regular place at club level. Ferguson lacks fitness although he played ok despite that. I don't know how regularly S. Caldwell and Cameron are playing but what i'm trying to say is that were really left wioth a very poor side last night. Basically what I'm saying is that last night was very poor. But I still don't agree that it's the managers fault. When you analyse it, it was a very poor group of players from which to pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Most importantly, the players he has to pick from aren't even playing regular football half the time and then we expect them to come into these one off games and win them? I don't think so. I think we need to accept that after years of under investment in youth players, we are now seeing the 'fruits' of our labour - or rather lack of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldWasp Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Last night made you wish for the heady days of Andy Roxburgh! Other small countries with poor squads achieve results by organisation, team spirit and setting themselves up so that they are hard to beat. Does Greece have that much better a pool of players than Scotland? The scottish team looked as if they had met in the car park on the way in. Yes we had injuries and suspensions - but so does every other country. I used to defend Bertie - on the grounds that he got us to within 90 minutes of Euro championships - and he had introduced a lot of young players. But now we need a change to restore morale. Italy away with that team / manager / "tactics" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Moldova is not an easy place to go. The pitch was shite and the Moldovans set up to frustrate a Scotland team lacking the gile to create clear cut chances. Disagree. I thought Moldova were the better side and indeed the only side that could have won the game. I think if anything we were attempting to frustrate them than the other way round. If Vogts stays we will finish bottom of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Honest Bob Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If Vogts stays we will finish bottom of the group. Amen brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poker King Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 and he had introduced a lot of young players Berti didn't really have much choice on that front. Most of the more experienced players decided they were resigning from international matches, it wasn't because they weren't getting picked. I don't think Berti has done anything to the squad that any other manger wouldn't have done. Get rid of the dead wood and bring in some promising youngsters. I'll probably get pilloried for saying this but hey ho. I reckon if you gave the current squad to Craig Brown, he would do a good job with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I'll probably get pilloried for saying this but hey ho. I reckon if you gave the current squad to Craig Brown, he would do a good job with them. I agree. Craig Brown played Darren Jackson in the World cup and we did respectably - that says it all really. The youth argument is a pish one as well. East Stirling have a lot of young players as well. Berti could pick them and the average age of our squad would rocket down. Gordon Smith, for once, called it right as well. "The players gave 100%". So what? They could pick 11 of us from here and we'd give 100 % but that wouldnt be good enough either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Last night made you wish for the heady days of Andy Roxburgh! Let's put it this way, if Craig Brown was still our manager the group would look like this... 1: Italy (9pts) 2: Scotland (7pts) - 2 wins (Moldova away - Slovenia home) / 1 draw (Norway home) 3: Norway (4pts) 4: Slovenia (4pts) 5: Belarus (4pts) 6: Moldova (0pts) Not as it is now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brechin City FC Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Bang on, ricster. The way it is now, we'll be EXTREMELY lucky to finish 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingraypoindexter Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 The thing that stuck out for me last night was the shape of the team and organisation (lack off) In the second half especially, the defenders sat so deep it was unbelievable. If you're playing 3 strikers that is inexcusable as it just created gigantic holes in the midfield for Moldova to sit in and pass the ball about far more comfortably than we could. There is a lack of leadership on the pitch Gordon/Ferguson/Webster should have been screaming for the defence to get up the pitch. Tommy B should have been screaming from the sideline and Berti should have been screaming at someone to tell tommy to scream at the players to push up!! This has been a recurring theme for a while now.. The buck stops with Berti The SFA should be on its knees to Strachan pleading him to take over - and least the post match interviews would be funnier if nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 By the way as a footnote, if we DO finish bottom of the group, it has been confirmed that we will be in POT 5 for the Euro 2008 qualifiers. Sends a shiver down yer spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 That's the same pot as the might of Bosnia Herzagrovina! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHU1967 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 So we don't have great players, for me it comes down to motivation & the manager being able to get that extra bit of effort from a very young team. Their was absolutely no shape to the team last night & at this level, that is shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 He should go as: 1. There is a lack of passion in the team, a lack of fight, a lack of sprit 2. Tactics are up his arse, subbing thompson wtf 3. We have become the worst team in Britain 4. We drew with both the Fareos and Moldova 5. We have the most young talent we have had in a long time and we are not getting the link from good u21 to the full team as most of them have been thrown in the deep end by berti, do to Craig Brown sticking with the old guard too long. 6. he has trouble telling the players what to do. 7. Look at what hughes did to wales in euro qualies, turn them from nope hopers to winners, a change here would have the same impact. However in his defence slightly we did not have Rab Douglas, Pressley, Dailly, Quashie, Mcfadden, Dickov, Pearson, Mackay, Anderson, McNamee, Kyle, G Rae etc. And Mcfadden,Naysmith, Fletcher and Pearson are hardly playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juan villa-lobos ramirez Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Tormod, I thank you for your response and half admission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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