xbl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) They've already been partly blamed. In the Taylor Report. The part of the Taylor report Liverpool fans gloss over and pretend isn't there. As I say every time this topic emerges, the only absolute fact is that Liverpool fans were partly to blame and the police were partly to blame. Where you apportion that blame percentage wise, can be debated. People who claim, as I have heard a number of times, that the Liverpool fanbase was blameless are lying. And every time you say this, I completely agree with you. Liverpool fans are obsessed with finding some sort of conspiracy, when there just isn't one! If the "truth" isn't to the satisfaction of the professional mourners, does anyone think that will be the end of the matter? I don't think so. Edited September 12, 2012 by xbl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Imagine if ticketless Liverpool fans hadn't tried to gain entry to the ground? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Imagine if ticketless Liverpool fans hadn't tried to gain entry to the ground? Or indeed if ticketed Liverpool fans had waited to allow people to enter the ground in an orderly fashion, instead of being complete and utter p***ks and shoving those in front of them to get in quicker. Basic standards of human behaviour from Liverpool fans would have resolved some of the problems of Hillsborough. Sadly, some of those at the back weren't capable of that. Strangely that has been pretty much unmentioned by the Liverpool fans spokespeople over the past 25 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some truly vile and dreadful trolling on here, i realise im in a pie and bovril minority here but to those who genuinely think Liverpool fans were to blame for hillsborough check out the you tube footage of Spurs v Wolves 1981 FA cup semi showing the SAME problems at the SMAME end of the ground. Nothing but a full apology from Cameron on behalf the then Tory government of 1989 for their part in the systematic cover up by the police and politicians will do. The families of the bereaved and the city of liverpool deserve it. #JFT96 -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Or indeed if ticketed Liverpool fans had waited to allow people to enter the ground in an orderly fashion, instead of being complete and utter p***ks and shoving those in front of them to get in quicker. Basic standards of human behaviour from Liverpool fans would have resolved some of the problems of Hillsborough. Sadly, some of those at the back weren't capable of that. Strangely that has been pretty much unmentioned by the Liverpool fans spokespeople over the past 25 years. Oh please. This report is completely pointless, as the following will happen: 1. Any remote criticism of the Police/authorities will be treated as gospel and be met with demands for resignations/reprisals etc etc 2. Any remote criticism of the Liverpool fans will be met with "cover up cover up!" and a total refusal to accept any blame whatsoever. Basically nothing will change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some truly vile and dreadful trolling on here, i realise im in a pie and bovril minority here but to those who genuinely think Liverpool fans were to blame for hillsborough check out the you tube footage of Spurs v Wolves 1981 FA cup semi showing the SAME problems at the SMAME end of the ground. Nothing but a full apology from Cameron on behalf the then Tory government of 1989 for their part in the systematic cover up by the police and politicians will do. The families of the bereaved and the city of liverpool deserve it. #JFT96 Utter garbage. And try reading. No one on here has ever punted the entire blame onto the Liverpool support. What most of us have said is that BOTH the Police and Liverpool supporters must accept portions of the blame to varying degrees. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Some truly vile and dreadful trolling on here, i realise im in a pie and bovril minority here but to those who genuinely think Liverpool fans were to blame for hillsborough check out the you tube footage of Spurs v Wolves 1981 FA cup semi showing the SAME problems at the SMAME end of the ground. Nothing but a full apology from Cameron on behalf the then Tory government of 1989 for their part in the systematic cover up by the police and politicians will do. The families of the bereaved and the city of liverpool deserve it. #JFT96 I don't think they are to blame 100%, but in the same breathe I don't think they are 100% innocent. Edited September 12, 2012 by Enrico Annoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some truly vile and dreadful trolling on here, i realise im in a pie and bovril minority here but to those who genuinely think Liverpool fans were to blame for hillsborough check out the you tube footage of Spurs v Wolves 1981 FA cup semi showing the SAME problems at the SMAME end of the ground. Nothing but a full apology from Cameron on behalf the then Tory government of 1989 for their part in the systematic cover up by the police and politicians will do. The families of the bereaved and the city of liverpool deserve it. #JFT96 You know, after all that the Liverpool fans had "been through" (blamelessly of course), what happened in the Champions League final a few years back? Forged tickets, overwhelming the security, bragging about there being more fans in the ground than stadium capacity actually allowed, and assorted other unsavoury incidents. Not one person is saying that the Liverpool fans were entirely to blame, but lets face it, they didn't help with their behaviour. And what is this cover up? Will this be revealed today? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young_bairn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Cameron firmly blaming the police! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Oh please. This report is completely pointless, as the following will happen: 1. Any remote criticism of the Police/authorities will be treated as gospel and be met with demands for resignations/reprisals etc etc 2. Any remote criticism of the Liverpool fans will be met with "cover up cover up!" and a total refusal to accept any blame whatsoever. Basically nothing will change. I agree with this. No matter what comes out today, no chance we would have heard the last of it, Always get the impression the vast majority of LFC fans are on a witch hunt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've always thought that if they'd announced that the kick off had been delayed 20 mins it would have stopped the frantic rush to get in. I agree both fans and police to blame but I would blame the police and Duckenfield more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 People simply want the truth. It would be horrific enough to lose a loved one in a manner like this but to then be smeared in the manner they were would be unimaginable. This report and release of these documents PROVES this is the case, as now acknowledged by the prime minister. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Not near a TV, can someone give an update? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Not near a TV, can someone give an update? Cameron amongst other things apoligises for the innapropriate actions of the then government and the lies of the police and associated failure by them that day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggy Wallace Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Think the most significant thing is people could have been saved after 3.15 pm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Cameron amongst other things apoligises for the innapropriate actions of the then government and the lies of the police and associated failure by them that day. Were the Liverpool fans blameless? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Think the most significant thing is people could have been saved after 3.15 pm. i'm sure there were people saved after 3:15pm. 700+ people were injured and it is hard to citicise medics for making medical choices about who is more deserving of care with limited medics able to assist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Cameron amongst other things apoligises for the innapropriate actions of the then government and the lies of the police and associated failure by them that day. Amazing. So no mention of "grief-monkeys" or telling the families to "get over it" or recycling of police and Murdoch propaganda like on this thread? Fair play to Cameron I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Cameron amongst other things apoligises for the innapropriate actions of the then government and the lies of the police and associated failure by them that day. You just heard what you want to hear The report shows that no evidence of any Government concealment was found. The report blames the police and the emergency service response time for a massive portion and completely villifies the police for changing their reports to fit their agenda (114 of 164 I think it was?) and the media for stoking that fire - in particular the infamous article in the Sun. Cameron DID however apologise for the lack of action on behalf of the Conservative Governments since the incident, and Milliband did the same on behalf of Labour. Oh, and Cameron said that there's no evidence that Liverpool fans were to blame at all. Obvously the report hasn't been made available yet, but that's what was said in a nutshell. Oh, also, there's a debate scheduled for October. Edit again: The report makes clear that of the 96, 58 ot 59 could have been saved after 3:15. Again, I'd like to see the report before commenting too much, but it really does appear to be quite damning on the poice/emergency services. Edited September 12, 2012 by Kyle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggy Wallace Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 i'm sure there were people saved after 3:15pm. 700+ people were injured and it is hard to citicise medics for making medical choices about who is more deserving of care with limited medics able to assist. No. People were left to die who could have been saved after 3.15 pm. It's official. There is no 'I'm sure' about it. Those in charge fucked up and have blood on their hands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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