H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'm not saying the fans were totally blameless Yet people do. For some reason. but did they really do anything differently to how we'd have expected fans of any other large club to behave on the day? Well, football fans are arseholes, so probably not. It's not, from my perspective, suggesting that Liverpool fans are any worse than anyone else in this regard. It could have been Man Utd, Celtic, Rangers quite easily. Where Liverpool fans are unparalleled (and this was shown after Heysel) is in their willingness to blame external bodies for things they themselves have to share culpability for. When it came to Heysel, which Liverpool fans were massively to blame for percentage wise, suddenly UEFA, the Belgians, Juventus fans etc were smeared to muddy the waters. When it came to Hillsborough, which Liverpool fans were a small percentage to blame for, it was the police who were vilified, and the other actors in the scene (i.e. them) were to be ignored, as they weren't primarly to blame. The double standards is breathtaking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 This was already given detailed consideration in the Taylor Report. Nothin new has emerged today about the causes of the tragedy. It is still, and always has been, a combination of police failures and fan behaviour. One thing that I`ve been thinking about is how different it would have been in today`s world. Cover-ups & lies would`ve been all but impossible given the abundance of mobile video devices. The truth would have emerged a lot more readily, and I mean that in both the sense of the police & the fans. An irrelevance perhaps, but interesting nonetheless. The easy way out has been to blame the fans. Remember it was 1989 & the hooligan culture was still around. In many people`s eyes, especially the Police`s, fans were scum. To try & sweep it under the carpet as such, has been the worst thing to come out of this, other than the death of 96 fans of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This was already given detailed consideration in the Taylor Report. Nothin new has emerged today about the causes of the tragedy. It is still, and always has been, a combination of police failures and fan behaviour. Bollocks troll boy. The report released today cleared the fans of any blame...FACT. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 One thing that I`ve been thinking about is how different it would have been in today`s world. Cover-ups & lies would`ve been all but impossible given the abundance of mobile video devices. The truth would have emerged a lot more readily, and I mean that in both the sense of the police & the fans. An irrelevance perhaps, but interesting nonetheless. Very much so. The internet also is a big factor. Think back to the de Menezes and Ian Tomlinson cases. Mcuh harder for the police to exculpate themselves from blame. The easy way out has been to blame the fans. Actually, I disagree. I think it's much easier for a fanbase to blame others than their own, as has been proven. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The report released today cleared the fans of any blame...FACT. Eh, no it didn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Eh, no it didn't. What blame did it lay at them ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Bollocks troll boy. The report released today cleared the fans of any blame...FACT. Oh dear. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 What blame did it lay at them ? None. It does not however remove the evidence already collected by Lord Justice Taylor, which includes evidence presented by impartial witnesses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 None. It does not however remove the evidence already collected by Lord Justice Taylor, which includes evidence presented by impartial witnesses. But today's report dismissed all the lies and false evidence given at the time of the taylor report did it not ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 But today's report dismissed all the lies and false evidence given at the time of the taylor report did it not ? Not all the evidence presented to the Taylor Enquiry was lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Having just seen the youtube video from the 81 semi at Hillsborough between Wolves and Spurs and hearing about other incidents on that terrace, it is really the FA who must shoulder the majority of the blame for this tragedy. It should have been played elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hell of a lot of p*sh being spouted on here by people who I bet have never ever experienced an English Football League game in the 1980's before this happened. The Police treated you like shit. Cattle wouldn't be hurded around like football fans were hurded around then. It was like a continuation of the Miners Strike at time. I've stood in the end that it all happened in Sheffield Wednesday v Newcastle, would have been around 83-84 and it was fucking scary in that paddock and indeed brutally policed. Battoned, punched and bitten by police dogs all par for the course. Hillsboro was only a matter of time, it was no suprise to me when it happened 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hell of a lot of p*sh being spouted on here by people who I bet have never ever experienced an English Football League game in the 1980's before this happened. The Police treated you like shit. Cattle wouldn't be hurded around like football fans were hurded around then. It was like a continuation of the Miners Strike at time. That type disaster was waiting to happen back then. I can remember Spurs playing Newcastle United in an F.A Cup tie in 1987 and that very same thing happened at White Hart Lane. The Met listened to a few fans that day otherwise it would have been a White Hart Lane Disaster we would be talking about instead of Hillsborough. It was mentioned today on three previous occasions at F.A Cup Semi-Finals at Hillsborough there had been been near misses on a scale with what happened in 1989. The Spurs v Wolves 1981 Semi was mentioned as was as one two. I think it was a one in 1987 involving Coventry and Leeds and the Notts Forest v Liverpool one in 1988 a year earlier. That's when Liverpool Chairman Peter Robinson confronted the FA to complain about their fans being put in the Leppings Lane End especially when all the Forest fans would be travelling into Sheffield from that area of the ground. Sounds like South Yorks Police stopped as low as you could stoop going through criminal records of deceased fans and testing young kids to see if they had been drinking. Excellent post. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gy diamond Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Bollocks troll boy. The report released today cleared the fans of any blame...FACT. Please tell me you are trolling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Not all the evidence presented to the Taylor Enquiry was lies. I never said it was however all credible evidence was brought forward. 164 doctored statements to help towards the police cover up according to todays report. The south yorkshire police force attempted to cover up the mistakes they made by unjustly blaming the liverpool fans for the tragedy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some truly vile and dreadful trolling on here, i realise im in a pie and bovril minority here but to those who genuinely think Liverpool fans were to blame for hillsborough check out the you tube footage of Spurs v Wolves 1981 FA cup semi showing the SAME problems at the SMAME end of the ground. Nothing but a full apology from Cameron on behalf the then Tory government of 1989 for their part in the systematic cover up by the police and politicians will do. The families of the bereaved and the city of liverpool deserve it. #JFT96 You been watching the Jimmy McGovern dvd collection again? there were fault on both sides and maybe if LFC, the supporters and the Justice for 96 campaigners weren't so blinkered they would get universal support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Please tell me you are trolling. That's what the report said was it not ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Eh, no it didn't. Yes it did. David Cameron repeated said statement in house of commons. Im old enough, just to remember going to football in that era and have been to plenty games and saw people with a fair bevvy in them, guys with no tickets trying to get one or blag their way in, never had a tragedy like hillsbourough occured at any of the games i attended, including old firm games, cup finals etc, grounds with fenced in away sections such as easter rd, tynecastle and even the old enclosure at ibrox, there was a potential for such a tragedy at any of these grounds, that there wasnt was down to the police doing their jobs, proper organisation and better designed terraces, factors which all came together in a failure of tragic proportions at hillsborough. The old jungle at CP or the enclosure at ibrox could potentially have hosted such a tragedy such was the fenced in nature of both, i know from standing in both for old firm matches. That it happened at Sheffield to the liverpool supporters was a tragedy of wrong place, wrong time with the wrong incompetent police force in charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gy diamond Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 That's what the report said was it not ? Please show me where it says that the Liverpool fans were not to blame at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Please show me where it says that the Liverpool fans were not to blame at all. It is currently being reported on all news outlets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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