pandarilla Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I really don't mean to disrespect the 96 people that sadly lost their lives that day but they really have been turned into martyrs for some sort of righteous cause.........of course I'm glad that the Hillsborough Report has finally exposed the negligent actions of the Police that day but anyone that is old enough to remember what football was REALLY like back then wasn't really shocked or surprised.......football & its supporters back then wasn't this happy, cuddly & media friendly game it is today......it was an ugly beast that was a national embarassment to the Government.....football hooligans were as real as the 38 dead corpses at Hysel just a few year earlier. Yes, the Police were at fault for some of their actions & inactions that day.......but so too were the ticketless fans in entering a confined space within the Leppings Lane terrace.....I guess that doesn't suit the agenda though. Erm you appear to have missed out the worst thing the police did in relation to Hillsborough... The campaign is about the cover-up. A cover-up that involved police at the highest levels, working with the media and the government to make sure the story was told the way they wanted it to be. That's why the Sun is hated. Stories of fans pissing on bodies and rifling through the pockets of the dead - dead children's blood being tested for alcohol levels. The actions of the police (and others) AFTER the event is why the anger has lasted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The original article was down to Kelvin Mackenzie. Scargill has nothing to do with this. However most newspaper's apologies are hidden away somewhere, not given a full front page as the Hillsborough one was. However this being the wrong type of apology is right up there with trains being cancelled because of the wrong type of snow as risible excuses. I'm sure there must be a 'Cult of Hillsborough Handbook' for all the believers to follow the party line re beliefs and terminologies to use. And Kelvin Mackenzie was working as some sort of rogue operative was he? This was part of the Sun's agenda in the 1980s. It demonised working class communities (hence my reference to the miner's strike) and pretty much acted as a mouthpiece for Thatcher's government. I think you misunderstood my point about the apology. My point is that the fact it was a front page spread does not convince me (or the city of Liverpool) that the Sun is being run any differently to the way it was in the 80s. Times have changed but their agenda is just the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Erm you appear to have missed out the worst thing the police did in relation to Hillsborough... The campaign is about the cover-up. A cover-up that involved police at the highest levels, working with the media and the government to make sure the story was told the way they wanted it to be. That's why the Sun is hated. Stories of fans pissing on bodies and rifling through the pockets of the dead - dead children's blood being tested for alcohol levels. The actions of the police (and others) AFTER the event is why the anger has lasted. I wasn't defending the Sun nor the Police. I alluded to the cover up in the Police's "actions" & "inactions" as well as the Government of the days destain for football & its ongoing issues with hooliganism back then hence a lack of shock or surprise at this was eventually exposed. The hysteria created by some in pointing the finger at the Police for being solely responsible for the deaths (or murders according to some) is as inaccurate as blaming the Belgian bricklayers for the wall that collapsed at Hysel in '85. It was a "series of events" that lead to the deaths of the 96 fans and as despicable as some of the "actions" & "inactions" of the Police........they weren't soley responsible.........which was the point I was making. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Wow just wow. What don't you get wisbit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Yes and still making it terribly. Please point out any inaccuracies..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I wasn't defending the Sun nor the Police. I alluded to the cover up in the Police's "actions" & "inactions" as well as the Government of the days destain for football & its ongoing issues with hooliganism back then hence a lack of shock or surprise at this was eventually exposed. The hysteria created by some in pointing the finger at the Police for being solely responsible for the deaths (or murders according to some) is as inaccurate as blaming the Belgian bricklayers for the wall that collapsed at Hysel in '85. It was a "series of events" that lead to the deaths of the 96 fans and as despicable as some of the "actions" & "inactions" of the Police........they weren't soley responsible.........which was the point I was making. I'll concede that the campaign has allowed a few numpties to jump on the bandwagon and take it too far. But at heart the campaign is entirely justified. The organisers have acted with complete dignity (even if some of those on the bandwagon haven't). The cause of the deaths was indeed a series of unfortunate events but this included police negligence. The sustained cover-up that followed was nothing other than malicious. Indefensible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larbert_Par Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Don't Scousers have sheer levels of contempt for basically everything that isn't themselves? Of the Liverpudlians that I know (and that's quite a few now from going to Everton games) then my answer to this would be no. Royal Mail can't but individuals can. Its called integrity and I say fair play to them. Too many folk grumble and moan and never take a stand. Agree with you completely here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'll concede that the campaign has allowed a few numpties to jump on the bandwagon and take it too far. But at heart the campaign is entirely justified. The organisers have acted with complete dignity (even if some of those on the bandwagon haven't). The cause of the deaths was indeed a series of unfortunate events but this included police negligence. The sustained cover-up that followed was nothing other than malicious. Indefensible. I totally agree......I genuinely wasn't belittling the campaign for the full facts to be exposed by the families, just raising points often forgotten by the bandwagon jumpers as you say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Exactly this, a catalogue of disasters lead to hilsbourgh and the cover ups that ensued lead to the justice for 96 campaign. Which part of this differed to what I posted wisbit? Be specific please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'll concede that the campaign has allowed a few numpties to jump on the bandwagon and take it too far. But at heart the campaign is entirely justified. The organisers have acted with complete dignity (even if some of those on the bandwagon haven't). The cause of the deaths was indeed a series of unfortunate events but this included police negligence. The sustained cover-up that followed was nothing other than malicious. Indefensible. I'll also assume you mean one of the series of unfortunate events was Liverpool fans, but just didn't want to say it. I'd say more than "a few" have jumped on the bandwagon. Any mention of Hillsborough that doesn't portray Liverpool fans or the club in a positive light and people are hounded for this and someone it's twisted to come across as you're somehow mocking the dead Alan Davis was a great example of this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Martyrs, agendas, basically it all to be fair. So you're saying that nobody has bandwagon jumped the campaign for justice (a campaign I said I agreed with) and created a hysteria which solely aportions blame at the hands of the Police & negated the "series of events" (again, a phrase I used in a previous post) which lead to the deaths of the 96 supporters? You agreed with a poster above who acknowledged the above points so I fail to see what you are getting at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 "worserer" You're fucking kidding, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Was kinda hoping someone else would jump on that tbh. Just ignore him he's a moaning p***k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Just ignore him he's a moaning p***k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I disagree, I remember jimmy from his teams foray into the upper echelons of Scottish football a few years back, he came across very well considering his team took one hell of a pounding that year. You are a worserer poster than him then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Posterer, surely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 wisbit had started arguing with sjc before stating his point as being remarkably similar to the point sjc put across before hand apart from he didn't use the term martyr. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 That is not how you addressed the issue in your first post. It is well known what events lead to the disaster, the campaign was set up after the events were published because the reported events and what actually took place were not correlating. Decisions were made that day that cost 96 lives, people wanted answers To call them martyrs and having agendas is being a tad disingenuous to say the least, irrespective of wether there has been bandwagon types jumping aboard. Let's not forget this happened in 89 and only now has the truth been able to trickle out. I think the people of Liverpool and Liverpool FC have every right to feel aggrieved don't you ? Then you clearly misread or misunderstand my 1st post.....I never called the 96 martyrs.......I said that they been made out to be martyrs by some (not all) bandwagon jumpers of the campaign for justice. At no point did I say they 96 or their families did not deserve the truth to be exposed. Like I said in my 2nd post, I wasn't defending the Police or the Sun in either post but pointing out the bandwagon jumpers are quick to vilify the Police (rightly so in many respects) and the Sun (correct if they were aware of the facts at the time) but not so vocal when it comes to vilifying the ticketless fans who entered the confined space of the Leppings Lane terrace. Just to be clear wisbit......it was the bandwagon jumpers I said had the agenda & are the ones who had tried to make martyrs of the 96. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Where do you mention bandwagon in this post. No wonder I miss read it if you left it out completely. The more I read it the worserer your post gets tbh. Bandwagon jumpers = righteous cause........quantified by going on to say that I was glad that the 96 & their families got the justice they deserved. I shouldn't really be surprised that you failed to comprehend my post fully as you struggle to spell words let alone understand them.......I promise to break all future posts down to laymans terms just for you wisbit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Trying to get into a game without a ticket. Shocking, mindless thuggery. Wonder who let them in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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