nacho Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Club dies.. New club formed.. Same club??? Cool story etc... plucked out of your deluded mind with no basis in reality, what actually happened is listed below Feb 13th 2012 - Rangers lodge their intention to go into administration at the Court of Session in Edinburgh. June 12th 2012 - HMRC announce they will reject the CVA offer and force rfc ltd into liquidation. June 12th 2012 – business, history and assets" of rangers football club plc sold to Sevco Scotland. October 31st 2012 – Rangers football club plc enters liquidation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 So the assets, history etc were sold, but not the Club. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Wunfy keeping the thread ticking over. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Buy history lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 plucked out of your deluded mind with no basis in reality, what actually happened is listed below Feb 13th 2012 - Rangers lodge their intention to go into administration at the Court of Session in Edinburgh. June 12th 2012 - HMRC announce they will reject the CVA offer and force rfc ltd into liquidation. June 12th 2012 – business, history and assets" of rangers football club plc sold to Sevco Scotland. October 31st 2012 – Rangers football club plc enters liquidation. If a football club is an asset that can be bought and sold like any other asset, can you show me where Rangers (TRFC plc) listed it on any of their post-2000 accounts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 If a football club is an asset that can be bought and sold like any other asset, can you show me where Rangers (TRFC plc) listed it on any of their post-2000 accounts? Any chance of making a "Dugs returning to their own vomit" thread for this shite? We've been through this hunners of times. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Any chance of making a "Dugs returning to their own vomit" thread for this shite? We've been through this hunners of times. Yes, some think the club died, some dont. Each side posts. Comments. Something distracting happens and then eventually we circle back to the 'your deid' 'no we are no' chat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Yes, some think the club died, some dont. Each side posts. Comments. Something distracting happens and then eventually we circle back to the 'your deid' 'no we are no' chat It's a dual problem: 1. The Big Thread continually revisits the same old shite and 2. Most Sevco threads end up as a mini-BRALT. You're a long-standing and intelligent poster. How should this idiocy be dealt with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 It's a dual problem: 1. The Big Thread continually revisits the same old shite and 2. Most Sevco threads end up as a mini-BRALT. You're a long-standing and intelligent poster. How should this idiocy be dealt with? I'm just getting over the shock of being accused of being intelligent. There isn't a solution. Its going to happen but it should be kept here or the let's all laugh at rangers thread ( the offshoot of this one). To close these would mean all threads will get this treatment. As much as the cyclical nature of this thread is, it's needed for this exact reason 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm just getting over the shock of being accused of being intelligent. Given your response I clearly made a c**t of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Any chance of making a "Dugs returning to their own vomit" thread for this shite? We've been through this hunners of times. I thought you Rangers fans stuck together? What's nacho done that most of you haven't done hunners of times before? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) I'm with Kincardine on the tedium of this line of discussion. It seems that every so often, Nacho spots that the circled date on his calendar has once more arrived and he feels compelled to make posts featuring phrases about "all the evidence". I did like that his latest one also featured an assertion about history being purchased though. I wonder how much that part cost. He's actually in danger of making some sense when he strays into the territory of suggesting that what carried over has much of the ethereal about it. What he unwittingly does in doing so though, is undermine his own unequivocal claims that continuity has been absolute and seamless. Edited June 28, 2016 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I'm with Kincardine on the tedium of this line of discussion. It seems that every so often, Nacho spots that the circled date on his calendar has once more arrived and he feels compelled to make posts featuring phrases about "all the evidence". I did like that his latest one also featured an assertion about history being purchased though. I wonder how much that part cost. He's actually in danger of making some sense when he strays into the territory of suggesting that what carried over has much of the ethereal about it. What he unwittingly does in doing so though, is undermine his own unequivocal claims that continuity has been absolute and seamless. no one is denying its tedious, thats why we have a 7071 page thread with over 200000 replies on it because its so incredibly boring for the mainly celtic diddy fans who have devoted years to it. as for the date on the calendar, it was posted when the newclubbers daft new club argument that uefa hadnt updated the clubs history on its website which you have been using for 4 years was proven to be absolute bollocks by them updating the page and confirming we are the same club as usual your response is full of nonsense which attempts to pass off the official duff and phelps report on the sale of the club as assertations, they are the experts and both them and bdo have confirmed that we are the same club hers the appropriate bit from the report 100% clear that the club was sold as part of the business, history and assets, fact not an assertation "the Joint Administrators were able to secure a going concern sale of the business, history and assets of the Company to Sevco" "Following the sale of business and assets of the Company, the responsibility for maintaining all trading operations passed to Sevco which continues to operate the Club" https://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/duff-phelps-report-july-2012.pdf as for your gibberish about the ethereal its down in black and white that the club was sold to sevco as a going concern directly after the cva failure and months before oldco was put into liquidation which shows and entirely seamless transaction, there is absolutely no confusion about any of the dates, at no point did the club ever not have a company running it , at no point did we ever have two memberships on the go. to believe otherwise shows a blatent disregard for all the evidence. you continue to attempt to muddy the waters with zero facts and fail every time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 So the assets, history etc were sold, but not the Club. Cheers the club was part of the assets of oldco according to d+p and bdo , companies with decades of experience in that area, you claiim otherwise with no expertise and no evidence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Yes, some think the club died, some dont. Each side posts. Comments. Something distracting happens and then eventually we circle back to the 'your deid' 'no we are no' chat idiots think the club died backed up by 4 year old newspaper reports and some statements from non expert ex players, both the newspapers and ex players have since intimated that the club survived numerous times - so you have zero credible evidence whatsoever we know the club survived based on official confirmation from uefa, the eca, spl, spfl, sfa and sfl every legal expert that has commented on it, lord glennie, nimmo, brodie all saying club and company are seperate entites and can and were separated in rangers case the two companies that were responsable for the sale of the club both stated clearly that the club was sold the asa stated the club has survived hmrc and the stock market also stated the club was the same club there have been numerous examples of clubs going throuh the same process as rangers and surviving - hearts, leeds, luton, middlesbrough etc that you all accepted without question for years you have absolutely nothing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If a football club is an asset that can be bought and sold like any other asset, can you show me where Rangers (TRFC plc) listed it on any of their post-2000 accounts? the only point the club can be separated from the company in such a manner is when its in admin, as already pointed out its happened numerous times before and legal experts back my understanding of the matter, why do you think lord glennie and lord nimmo, bdo , d+p etc are wrong and you are right as this needs to be included on the accounts as an asset? yours is a nonsensical argument 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 idiots think the club died backed up by 4 year old newspaper reports and some statements from non expert ex players, both the newspapers and ex players have since intimated that the club survived numerous times - so you have zero credible evidence whatsoever we know the club survived based on official confirmation from uefa, the eca, spl, spfl, sfa and sfl every legal expert that has commented on it, lord glennie, nimmo, brodie all saying club and company are seperate entites and can and were separated in rangers case the two companies that were responsable for the sale of the club both stated clearly that the club was sold the asa stated the club has survived hmrc and the stock market also stated the club was the same club there have been numerous examples of clubs going throuh the same process as rangers and surviving - hearts, leeds, luton, middlesbrough etc that you all accepted without question for years you have absolutely nothing You can't buy or sell history. To suggest otherwise is nonsense, and casts doubt on everything else D & P said. As for Leeds, Middlesborough etc., their continuity is a harmless fiction which people go along with. It makes their fans happy, and no-one else cares much either way. If you want to believe that Rangers is still the same club that's ok by me. Other people believe that God or Santa Claus exists, or that the earth is flat. Or even that Rangers is the most successful club in the world, when all the evidence says they were just a big fish in a very small pool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) plucked out of your deluded mind with no basis in reality, what actually happened is listed below Feb 13th 2012 - Rangers lodge their intention to go into administration at the Court of Session in Edinburgh. June 12th 2012 - HMRC announce they will reject the CVA offer and force rfc ltd into liquidation. June 12th 2012 – business, history and assets" of rangers football club plc sold to Sevco Scotland. October 31st 2012 – Rangers football club plc enters liquidation. You quite sure about this assets / history being sold on June 12th.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18441178 Edited June 28, 2016 by Ken Fitlike -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Its a couple of months old and still makes interesting reading http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2016/05/06/rangers-tax-case-draws-calls-independent-inquiry-scottish-football/ Rangers tax case draws calls for independent inquiry into Scottish football6th May 2016Rangers By Matt Scott May 5 – Glasgow Rangers escaped being stripped of historic league titles by the Scottish Football Association on false pretences, a report by the Tax Justice Network (TJN) has alleged. The report claims that the SFA commission of inquiry headed by Lord Nimmo Smith to investigate the circumstances of Rangers’ financial collapse was misled into believing that its tax affairs had been legally permitted. The TJN report details how the erroneous information received by the commission arose from witness testimony given by Campbell Ogilvie, the former Rangers club secretary and SFA president. Ogilvie did not respond to the TJN’s requests for comment. The matter relates to the two cases HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) brought against Rangers and precipitated the club’s financial demise, from which followed their relicensing as a new club in Scottish football’s bottom professional tier. At least three former Rangers players, Craig Moore, Tore Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer, were paid through a complicated offshore Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) known as a Discounted Options Scheme (DOS). When in March 2011 HMRC came knocking with a demand for a settlement of £2.8 million in unpaid taxes over those players, the scheme had already been ruled unlawful. Rangers’ then tax lawyer, Andrew Thornhill QC, recommended paying the settlement in response to the taxman’s claims the club’s EBT specifically amounted to “the deliberate failure or fraudulent behaviour of the company†around a “sham set of arrangementsâ€. It meant that wages paid to De Boer, Rangers’ top scorer in 2001-2 when they won the Scottish Premier League title on goal difference, had unlawfully evaded tax. Yet the SFA-appointed independent commission did not apply any sporting sanctions as it found there had been no wrongdoing on the part of Rangers. This was because in the ‘Big Tax Case’, Scotland’s first-instance court had found in favour of the club over an entirely separate, offshore, tax-avoidance EBT scheme. In the event, that finding has been overturned on appeal in Scotland’s higher Court of Session, but in any case there was never at any point a reason to consider the DOS scheme anything but unlawful – the club had accepted as much in correspondence with the taxman. Nonetheless, the commission ruled that the two separate and entirely different cases should be considered as one. “We note that the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust was preceded by the Rangers Employee Benefit Trust, but we are not aware that they were different trusts. We shall treat them as a continuous trust, which we shall refer to throughout as the MGMRT.†This was a grave mistake on behalf of the Nimmo Smith commission but one it was led to on the basis of the facts available to it. Nobody connected with Rangers told them the truth of the matter. Indeed the TJN alleges one witness, Ogilvie, chose to withhold information when asked specific questions relating to EBTs. He told the commission he had “nothing to do†with the EBT schemes, repeating what he had told Scotland’s The Herald newspaper in an interview given in 2013, in which Ogilvie stated: “The EBTs were set up around 2001 at Rangers and I’ve never hidden from the fact that I was then a director at the club. But I didn’t get involved in the financial management of the club in that context.†Yet the TJN’s documents show that in 1999 Ogilvie had attended a board meeting whose minutes show he was assigned responsibility for setting up the offshore shell company that would be the payment vehicle for the DOS EBT payment made to Craig Moore. As the TJN points out: “He was in fact a central figure in establishing the discounted options scheme used to pay Craig Moore.†It was on the evidence of this former senior Rangers employee, and now SFA president, that a key element of the commission’s decision not to apply sporting sanctions – points deductions or stripping of historical titles – was based. When presented with the facts of the case by TJN, the SFA declined to comment, earning a stinging rebuke in the TJN report. “Perhaps Ogilvie simply forgot, and by chance that forgetfulness saved his longstanding club and employer from being stripped of many titles,†the TJN said. “What is not credible is the SFA’s response. When presented with evidence that the inquiry into the breaking of their rules had been misled by their own former President, with the result that a club they regulated may have wrongly held won championships, it cannot be acceptable that the SFA say nothing. “Changes are clearly needed in relation to the handling of conflicts of interest within the governing body, and to the processes of member club accountability for malfeasance. In relation to the specific case at hand, it is difficult to see a continuing role for those involved in the decision-making at the time, and in the subsequent failure to address the demonstrated errors of the inquiry’s findings.†With court cases now under way in relation to the conduct of Rangers and its former owners, it is clear many elements of its operations and the regulatory decisions relating to them were extremely badly handled. On the basis of a misleading licence application, UEFA handed Rangers a Champions League licence in 2011-12 when the club had outstanding tax liabilities, in contravention of the rules over unpaid debts to tax, player and club creditors. TJN concludes: “We recommend the establishment of a fully independent inquiry, as a crucial step to begin the slow process of re-establishing the legitimacy of Scottish football’s regulatory body.†0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 The not so independent tax justice networks report ( not a blog) again, 100% gospel it is.... -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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