Shades75 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Already gave my reply to Claymores who did not try to deflect away from the exact question I'm sorry if it seemed that I was deflecting the question, it was not intentional. IMO the reason you were in a situation whereby you had to make a decision as to whether or not the club paid PAYE was created by David Murray leaving you in the financial shitter with a googly eyed monster controlling the cash card. Said googly eyed monster then decided to withhold PAYE to preserve cash flow and cash in the bank. That clear? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Or he could have come clean and said "we failed to qualify for the CL, so unless we shed massive costs then the company is gonna go down the shitter, sorry I lied but I dont have any money" But no the individual Whyte that was running the club decided to keep quiet, spend money to keep the fans happy and fund it all by stopping paying PAYE, anybody that stood in his way was punted and anybody that was complicit in his actions is guilty as sin Administration was completely avoidable if the man had had some balls, perhaps this in the long run would have changed nothing depending on the outcome of the BTC but he was hardly at any point acting in the best interests of anybody but himself David Murray could have done the very same in previous years (admit to being skint), in fact he could have done more by not creating the situation in the first place. It is one of the incredible mysteries to me throughout this whole saga that Murray continues to get off lightly ( for now anyway ). Duped my arse. Edited November 6, 2012 by Shades75 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I like to keep the 2 separate Whyte is guilty of fraud, he knew exactly what he was getting when he bought Rangers, his aim was always to make a fast buck, it went pear shaped when he failed to qualify for the CL and he was then left with a choice, come clean, shed the costs to avoid admin or change his plan to make his quick buck, he chose the latter and must have known from the day he stopped paying PAYE that the company was fucked Murray on the other hand was an arrogant b*****d, liked being an arrogant b*****d but had no money to keep being an arrogant b*****d so he chose something else, did he know this was illegal? time will tell but if it is proved that it was then it all depends on if it can be proved that he knew it was, if this turns out to be the case then I hope they nail him to a cross but naturally being a Rangers fan I am hoping that it turns out he was just guilty of arrogance I think you maybe right, surely he knew how much of a dodgy cnut Whyte was, but he was desperate to offload and who else was gonna buy a club with the BTC hanging over it? That's a pretty objective post for a Rangers fan, I like it. The only thing I would say is:- If David Murray sold the club to Whyte, knowing how much of a shyster he was, regardless of whether or not the BTC was coming, could that not be described as the single most self preservationist act of the whole saga and the ultimate betrayal for Rangers fans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It is .. Murray sank the club .. he bankrupted it and then handed it over to a patsy to complete the job. Tedi still thinks he might be innocent .. poor wee succulent lamb. I have to say that I agree. It only seems that because he had the MSM lapping up every word he said, and even now they don't pursue him - of course we all know that is for fear of self incrimination or at the very least some Olympic standard back-tracking, that extended to the wider Rangers support. The Daily record factor. I find it satisfying that one of the symptoms of the whole shebang is to put another couple of nails in the coffin of that particular embarrassment to an independent press. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 100% right, all thoughts of what was best for Rangers had disappeared by that point, Murray is a classic tale of Hero turned Villain, what he should have done was see out the BTC but that would have meant savage cost cutting and selling almost the entire 1st team along with sacking his bum chums in the board room and above all else coming totally clean with the fans, but that would have meant admitting his arrogance had landed the club in this situation and that was obviously beyond him f**k sake Tedi. I think we have found some common ground and at least broadly agree on some points. This wasn't supposed to happen......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It is a rare event but it is all about how you manage to hold a conversation without it degenerating into insults But even more difficult when I have to deal with the likes of the poster you just quoted above, I just can`t debate with the likes of that but then that is not your issue just pointing out that is easy to become confrontational when your constantly under attack Thanks and goodnight, my post count is a perfect spot to leave things for tonight I make it a rule never to trade insults when I can't at least use a twisted scowl to add weight to the gesture ! Later... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Well we all know it was Whyte who was calling the shots, anybody that was going to go up against him at board level was punted, still I accept that anybody who was also in the know and stood idly by while fraud was carried out is just as guilty, but like any board there will have been members who had no idea what was going on In company law, financial igmorance by a Director is no defence and that director(s) is deemed guilty by association due to their negligence. It is any Directors role to be aware of any irregularities and to report such. In simpler words, they are all a parcel of Rogues. Quite apt really. 100% right, all thoughts of what was best for Rangers had disappeared by that point, Murray is a classic tale of Hero turned Villain, what he should have done was see out the BTC but that would have meant savage cost cutting and selling almost the entire 1st team along with sacking his bum chums in the board room and above all else coming totally clean with the fans, but that would have meant admitting his arrogance had landed the club in this situation and that was obviously beyond him Murray is/was possibly the Pinnacle of arrogance. However, he probably feared the violent arrogance - evidenced by events in abundance since February - of a backlash by the support, if he were to carry out your plan above. He was doing what you lot wanted him to do. I wish he had, It may have meant less decent folk being threatened and intimidated and a few less folk having to visit A&E. As for us diddies envying The Rangers and its previous incarnation (as you or one of your fellow fans stated earlier)... just shows what Dinosaurs you really are. Edited November 6, 2012 by Vambo57 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 To put it into context Shades i can show you my original post in the defence of Tedi in the early days until he started labeling other posters including myself jakeys .. So the 'pretend good guy' bullshit does not work with those of us who know the real Fivestars ... Two examples of Tedi's highly intelligent non abusive conversational style .. (trust me that is the tip of the iceberg) Tedi the purveyor of truth ,..... NOT !!! I think Fivestars spin doctor has been telling him he needs to reinvent his image ... I think he is trying to dupe us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AES Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Who do you blame it on then Lets take the non payment of PAYE that happened in the latter part of 2011 onwards, who was to blame? I think that there is another issue here which hasn't been discussed. As RFC was facing a potentially ruinous tax bill of around £70m, why did HMRC see fit to allow them to run up day-to-day tax bills (PAYE and VAT) of around £20m over the course of a year? I do the books for a local charity and if I'm ever even a few days late with PAYE and NIC, I get a reminder. I think that HMRC should explain their reasons for allowing a business which was already facing a crippling bill to run up higher debts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 [ The dodgy arrogant cnut that allowed Whyte to take the reins without any solid finances behind him. Sir David Murray the guy that implemented the ruinous EBT scheme and ran it knowing full well he was evading paying the taxes HMRC were due. The guy who knew had a dossier/report on Whyte advising he was dodgy yet sold the club to him anyway. Whyte may technically be the guy in charge at the time but SDM granted him access to the controls knowing full well unless he had substantial funds behind him that the club was most likely going to go tits up ... Only the most die hard apologist would state it hasn't been proven since the relevation that SDM received a dossier/report regarding Whyte. Everybody knows SCW was SDM patsy SDM up to his neck in it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 What did Ian Archer say ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 What did Ian Archer say ? Is he talking from beyond the grave ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 What did Ian Archer say ? Rangers - http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/a-permanent-embarrassment-and-an-occasional-disgrace/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnesTON Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I think that there is another issue here which hasn't been discussed. As RFC was facing a potentially ruinous tax bill of around £70m, why did HMRC see fit to allow them to run up day-to-day tax bills (PAYE and VAT) of around £20m over the course of a year? I do the books for a local charity and if I'm ever even a few days late with PAYE and NIC, I get a reminder. I think that HMRC should explain their reasons for allowing a business which was already facing a crippling bill to run up higher debts. HMRC sat down with Whyte about the tax situation and an agreement of payment was reached but Rangers didn't keep up any of the payments in fact it was then there was a conscious effort not to pay any invoices. The fault is not with HMRC who in good faith attempted to create a reasonable timeframe for payment of back taxes ( I think this included the Wee Tax Case). The fault was with Whyte and therefore the executives on the board who were aware of what was happening but did not go public Whyte did know what he was doing but that only occurred due to the silence of others . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Rangers - http://rangerstaxcas...ional-disgrace/ Thanks Ken ! I agree with Archer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doink Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 http://leggoland2.blogspot.co.uk/ Odius Creep is the biggest threat to Rangers Leggo goes loco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AES Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 HMRC sat down with Whyte about the tax situation and an agreement of payment was reached but Rangers didn't keep up any of the payments in fact it was then there was a conscious effort not to pay any invoices. The fault is not with HMRC who in good faith attempted to create a reasonable timeframe for payment of back taxes ( I think this included the Wee Tax Case). The fault was with Whyte and therefore the executives on the board who were aware of what was happening but did not go public Whyte did know what he was doing but that only occurred due to the silence of others . Can't accept that - RFC was already facing a huge tax bill and struggling to pay day-to-day taxes. As soon as the company fell behind with the new schedule, action should have been taken to recover the tax due. HMRC hasn't, in my opinion, handled this well at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Came across his pearl when looking for your 'non abusive conversational posts' ... I keep forgetting jakey is a term of endearment .. So how's that SPL fucked by Xmas concept working out Tedi .. or were you just lying or sniffing the glue again ??? To be fair to Tedi its no Christmas yet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyman Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Would one of you lovely deep cover chaps care to give us a laugh by posting said certificate. Hope it's not from Arthur!!! That would cause an upset!!! http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=241760#entry1060575315 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Here is bairnforever1992 phoning big Jim Traynor on saturday (again) http://www.2shared.com/audio/fqzZUFg7/bairn.html Bhairns not right in the head 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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