Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[AUFC90]

HMRC's own lawyer told the First-Tier ribunal that loans are not a sham. He was also asked whether HMRC would look on the monies as loans if a recipient died. He took advice and returned to tell the tribunal that HMRC didn't want to commit itself.

Yeah but now TedI is saying they were basically wages and so did the lord apparently. Wages are taxable my friend

[youngsy]

With regards to the SPL tribunal decision this week.

To whom does it rest to bring this to appeal at the Court of Session, & forby that, the CAS? The clubs, & fans, directly affected by this PROVEN continual flaunting of the rules deserve see that Justice is done.

Does the SFA, as ruling body, not have a say in this? Though with Regans comments today, you can only surmise that they want this swept under the carpet ASAP.

Go lie down and give it a rest. The club was shown not to have played illegible players and therefore no sporting advantage was gained, what part of that don't you understand. No doubt you'll come back with the usual shouts of cheating, if that's what floats your boat do carry on,as for me i'll accept the findings of the Commission as i always said i would, perhaps you should try and do the same.

[Bearwithme]

Yeah but now TedI is saying they were basically wages and so did the lord apparently. Wages are taxable my friend

Well I'm not sure what the noble lord said but, with all due respect, I doubt if Tedi's view will decide the tribunal.

[The_Kincardine]

I'll tell you the one thing I'm bitter about in Scottish fitba - the shite passed off as quality players on utterly ridiculous wages.

When I think of some of the players I've seen of genuine star quality - say Jim Baxter and Willie Henderson at Rangers, George Connolly and Kenny Dalglish at Celtic - I go along to the fitba these days and know we're being diddled for the price of entry.

Ben, good post.

Having read through Finding Nimmo's report the other day I almost gret again at the amount of money our club paid to dozens of fucking diddies. This is the real scandal of the EBT scheme. Not that it was illegal but that it was just a shocking waste of money: setting up busfulls of shysters for life who barely could kick a ball and who gave not a f**k about Rangers.

Sadly, in our euphoria of winning two commissions/enquiries, we forget that we really did pish away a hell of a lot of money on wasters.

Edited March 2, 2013 by The_Kincardine

[AUFC90]

Go lie down and give it a rest. The club was shown not to have played illegible players and therefore no sporting advantage was gained, what part of that don't you understand. No doubt you'll come back with the usual shouts of cheating, if that's what floats your boat do carry on,as for me i'll accept the findings of the Commission as i always said i would, perhaps you should try and do the same.

If u remove the title stripping thing the judgement was pretty damming. Only rangers fans would be stupid enough to count it as a victory haha. Intentionally breaking rules is cheating. It's the definition of cheating

[AUFC90]

Well I'm not sure what the noble lord said but, with all due respect, I doubt if Tedi's view will decide the tribunal.

Agreed

[AUFC90]

You can call it cheating if you want - the important thing is that we did not gain an advantage on the field so in this context Kyle Lafferty did more cheating than anything that Nimmo found us guilty of.

Smith couldn't conclude that their was an advantage gained. It's down to opinion and being able to sign say Davis because u offered him an extra 1.4million in the form of an EBT is gaining an advantage.

[youngsy]

Temporary licence says no. That's evidence. What evidence do u have to the contrary apart fpeople saying so of course

Try looking at the transference of the full SFA membership which was transferred on 3-8-12. The same membership that has been in existance since 1874. So tell us all,who in football authority has ever stated categorically and officially that this was a new and different club?

The SFA,SPL,SFL,ECA have all recognised the continuation. This seems to be a bugbear of yours but you will find over time that, as i've said before,the Annals of Scottish Football will recognise the full history of the club from 1872 going forward. You're opinion is irrelevant,live with that.

[AUFC90]

Try looking at the transference of the full SFA membership which was transferred on 3-8-12. The same membership that has been in existance since 1874. So tell us all,who in football authority has ever stated categorically and officially that this was a new and different club?

The SFA,SPL,SFL,ECA have all recognised the continuation. This seems to be a bugbear of yours but you will find over time that, as i've said before,the Annals of Scottish Football will recognise the full history of the club from 1872 going forward. You're opinion is irrelevant,live with that.

Yep your membership was TRANSFERED. And u and I both know u can't transfer somethin from you to yourself haha. I notice how u conveniently didn't mention the fact yous had a temporary licence for a brief period. Conclusive proof the timeline was broken. Whilst one club was waiting to hand over their membership, the other club was playing in the challenge cup on a temporary licence. I don't care what anyone says, I can see with my own eyes thank u very much.

[youngsy]

If u remove the title stripping thing the judgement was pretty damming. Only rangers fans would be stupid enough to count it as a victory haha. Intentionally breaking rules is cheating. It's the definition of cheating

Oh FFS,This was all about title stripping and playing illegible players,not only in Scotland,but according to many,Europe as well. That was the crux of the whole thing,don't you understand that. No i'll ask;as the whole intention of this Commission was to find if Rangers played illegible players to gain sporting advantage was the club found guilty of that and was the club stripped of any honours. Never mind removing the title stripping,that was the main object of this Commission,it didn'y happen son.

[youngsy]

Yep your membership was TRANSFERED. And u and I both know u can't transfer somethin from you to yourself haha. I notice how u conveniently didn't mention the fact yous had a temporary licence for a brief period. Conclusive proof the timeline was broken. Whilst one club was waiting to hand over their membership, the other club was playing in the challenge cup on a temporary licence. I don't care what anyone says, I can see with my own eyes thank u very much.

You don't care what anyone says? But that's the whole point,you're irrelevant.

[AUFC90]

Rubbish play on words

Nimmo Smith did conclude there was no advantage sought or gained, he was very clear on this.

NImmo doesn't know shit about football. He was going by the letter of the law and that's it. A football club gaining a financial advantage and hiding it is clearly cheating. Anyone apart from rangers fans will know that gaining an advantage financially translates to gaining an advantage on the park. Not even going debate it anymore because its totally obvious. Rangers were found guilty, end of story

[hellbhoy]

Correct me if I am wrong here but did Nimmo not say that despite the EBT`s being classed as loans that he concluded they were still part of the players contractual arrangements and part of player`s overall package of renumeration therefore payments, I think he even said that if they had not been included in the players contractual arrangements then there was no reason to believe that the players would have accepted the initial contract offers.

He may not have used the word wages but contractual arrangements sounds pretty similar to meaning the same thing, I do not think Nimmo was in any doubt that the EBT's were part of what the player was getting paid and the fact Rangers did not properly break these down and disclose the information per player meant that they were breaking the rules.

Before the tribunal I also argued that the EBT`s were loans and not payments and since Nimmo makes it clear that this was not the case I now accept they were in fact payments and would go as far to agree with Bennett that they were indeed part of their wages, this is P & B not a court room we can call a spade a spade I think.

The important part for me is that although Rangers did not detail these payments properly, in fact they deliberately failed to try and cover up their tax arrangements it did not constitute a break in the rules of player registration as once a player is registered then its constant.

I still believe Murray was a dodgy b*****d who knew that the EBT scheme was flying close to the edge and was shitting himself for tax reasons and so deliberately did not disclose these EBT payments player by player instead he declared it as a whole in the accounts, I have also heard it suggested that Murray may have done this in an attempt to hide his clever tax avoidance from the the other clubs, bullshit, I believe the other clubs were fully aware of EBT`s just not stupid enough to use them, they were right and Murray has been proven (despite EBT`s being legal) a fuckwit who fucked up the club he was supposed to love, he is a b*****d and I will hate him forever.

I am sure I heard the Rangers fans singing against Murray today, about damn time and far too late.

Tedi ! Murray & Rangers never disclosed any amount of cash given out as loans EVER.

They did whoever disclosed in the annual accounts that they were implementing and funding the EBT scheme and was classed legally as a sort of pension fund,but did not need to disclose that they were giving out tax free loans you didn't ever have to pay back ever.This is the bit Murray and Rangers ripped the pish right out off because this part was the scam disguised as loans and why the BTC failed for the moment.

The side letter itself was carefully worded so as to say the player would receive a tax free loan on a certain date through an offshore fund,this is were the discretionary method failed as the player knew when he would receive a payment from the scheme and not that the player asked for a discretionary loan.This then Nimmo claimed that the side letters/contracts should have been shown to the SPL & SFA and not just the actual loan amount itself and this is where the breach in rules lies.Rangers should have shown that players were receiving payments in advance to the SPL & SFA by showing the side letters to the associations in their annual accounts.Hence being contractual in nature.

[The_Kincardine]

Smith couldn't conclude that their was an advantage gained. It's down to opinion and being able to sign say Davis because u offered him an extra 1.4million in the form of an EBT is gaining an advantage.

Of course we sought to gain an advantage - this is what every fucking club seeks to do. Sport is all about gaining an advantage over the people you compete with.

The point is NOT about gaining an advantage. The point is about the fairness of said advantage. There's a world of difference between the two.

If there wasn't then you could claim something like, "AUFC are the second-best team in Ayrshire because those Killie b*****ds sought an advantage by actually going to training. Cheating b*****ds."

Edited March 2, 2013 by The_Kincardine

[AUFC90]

Oh FFS,This was all about title stripping and playing illegible players,not only in Scotland,but according to many,Europe as well. That was the crux of the whole thing,don't you understand that. No i'll ask;as the whole intention of this Commission was to find if Rangers played illegible players to gain sporting advantage was the club found guilty of that and was the club stripped of any honours. Never mind removing the title stripping,that was the main object of this Commission,it didn'y happen son.

For anyone outside the old firm it wasn't about title stripping it was about finding out if u guys cheated. Guilty verdict confirms this. End of

[bennett]

^ ^ ^ This is what happens when the orcs mask slips from time to time they reveal exactly what they really believe about the old Rangers regime !

Benny EBT's are not wages bub they are legally known as discretionary loans and do not form any part of the players wages so did not need to be disclosed in the accounts you fud.

So there we have Benny telling us what he actually thinks about these so called legal loans you do not have to pay back ! "Thur wages"

Thats the beauty of it, we all know it was wages but the FTTT saw it our way and the green and greys can only whine about how unjust it all is online.

Cheers kid.

[bennett]

U do realise that if they were in fact part of the players wages as u say then HMRC will have a field day at the upper tier

Are you an accountant? What are you basing this on?

[AUFC90]

Ok I set you the same challenge as HellBhoy.

If you really believe this and that you are right, why not write to the SFA telling them your views and convince them to declare that Rangers are a new club with no History and that in fact Nimmo Smith is a numpty that does not know what he is talking about.

If you can do this then I will accept your version, be sure to post a copy of your letter on this forum along with the reply.

Unfortunately I don't need people with financial gain in mind to tell me I'm correct. I'll leave that sort of stuff for you guys. For me and anyone else who hasn't got anything to gain from the argument, your club died. Sorry but its true. Am off out. Cheerio ya bunch of cheating sevconians Edited March 2, 2013 by AUFC90

[hellbhoy]

I've said it before and i'll say it again,you don't half post some shite. Take this in and try and digest it; The FTT found in favour of the PLC, the SPL Commission stated that the club never at any time played illegible players on the field of play and therefore there was no sporting advantage gained.

Two eminent Law Lords,among others, have statted that the club is one and the same from 1872 continuos, the footballing authorities recognise that continuation. Try and hide your undoubted bitterness because the Annals of Scottish Football going forward will show the full history of Rangers, all titles intact,from 1872 so your opinion is irrelevant in all of this.

The continuation is recognised,son no matter what you or anyone else says on an internet forum. As for myself i'm absolutely ecstatic in the outcome of the SPL Commission and the FTT verdict.

You should take your head out your arse once in a while and smell the shite your posting on here yourself and remove the anger and read the post for what it really was before replying.

My post was about the time from before Whyte placed Rangers PLC into administration and goes back to 2010 onwards and the events that happened before administration !.Then you will understand why and how you claim continuance today instead of uncontrollably sobbing at the death of your beloved club.

It's all about the rule changes implemented just before administration happened to save your corrupt to the core club from death as they would have you believe.And you have lapped up every piece of shite they changed just because it suits your needs and don't even know how and why you can boast n brag about 54 WATP

So all your law lord pish and legal crap about continuance comes from the SFA & SPL because your club was on it's knees and needed mega help from the rule changes.Yes you now say this and that said this and the courts say that nowadays only because of what happened before February last year.

[hellbhoy]

Thats the beauty of it, we all know it was wages but the FTTT saw it our way and the green and greys can only whine about how unjust it all is online.

Cheers kid.

THANKS BENNY ! you have now incriminated all the orcs on here that they were in actual fact wages when all the other orc's stood to the orc party political stance they were loans .Does that make you a scab now ?.

And please feel free to say you cheated now and why bother stopping at they were wages GO ON BENNY

P.S. thanks for the new signature