Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[thelegendthatis]

You'll need to show where in my post i stated anything about apologies from Murray. In fact it's just a pile of pish from you.

I didn't refer to your post as a source of Murray apologising or not. I am sure you are a nice guy. No offence, but I definitely would not use you as single source for anything.

What I meant was that I would have expected Murray to have apologised by now to all those he let down so badly. Saying one thing, doing something totally different.

As I don't follow every move I was wondering if I had missed it.

But then again, maybe some of the old Rangers fans do not think he has anything to apologise for. Please tell me that isn't the case.

Edited May 8, 2013 by thelegendthatis

[bennett]

As such a dignified manager he should have said "NO TO THE EBT's" but he did not he relentlessly spent more and more via EBT during his managerial tenure knowing full well the HMRC were investigating Rangers from 2004,two years later Rangers paid more via EBT than at any other time in Rangers history and instead of stopping the scheme which would ultimately lead to Celtic & other clubs being more successful as a result of Rangers fielding a weaker squad than they did during the EBT years.

You could say Walter Mitty was complicit in the demise of Rangers PLC because he obviously knew Rangers were paying players via the EBT scheme and actively increased spending under it to get wan up ra sellick even though the club was being actively being investigated by the HMRC for abusing the EBT scheme by ripping the arse right out of it with non repayable loans.

Walter is a bad as they come when it applies to Rangers demise as he spent money knowing it could kill the club,but naw he takes the plaudits from the fans for winning trophies when a better plan of action might have been because he loves the club so much and told the fans out openly that David Murray could kill the club by using dodgy financial re-numerations and the HMRC were investigating the clubs dodgy finances.

Walter knew ! so guilty by association and complicit in the demise of Rangers and should not be seen as the hero the fans make him because he helped bankrupt the club in order to win trophies.

Seriously what is going om inside your head? Your post has left me lost for words, i enjoy a good wind up and fishing post as much as the next guy but i doubt that even you can make sense of your inane ramblings.

Hellboy putting the pie into pie and bovril.

[Bendarroch]

Shame your fascination didn't involve lifting a finger to help Rangers when the club was on it's knees before dying

Ah, bless.

[youngsy]

I didn't refer to your post as a source of Murray apologising or not. I am sure you are a nice guy. No offence, but I definitely would not use you as single source for anything.

What I meant was that I would have expected Murray to have apologised by now to all those he let down so badly. Saying one thing, doing something totally different.

As I don't follow every move I was wondering if I had missed it.

But then again, maybe some of the old Rangers fans do not think he has anything to apologise for. Please tell me that isn't the case.

Oh Murray has plenty to apologise for and many Rangers fans are of the one opinion,that without a shadow of a doubt he should acknowledge his part in the creditors,shareholders and debenture bondholders losing money due to his financial misdealings. He has never apologised to anyone though or indeed he has never held his hand up to admit his part in all of this. I can assure you that the vast majority of Rangers fans have no respect or time for the man.

[youngsy]

As such a dignified manager he should have said "NO TO THE EBT's" but he did not he relentlessly spent more and more via EBT during his managerial tenure knowing full well the HMRC were investigating Rangers from 2004,two years later Rangers paid more via EBT than at any other time in Rangers history and instead of stopping the scheme which would ultimately lead to Celtic & other clubs being more successful as a result of Rangers fielding a weaker squad than they did during the EBT years.

You could say Walter Mitty was complicit in the demise of Rangers PLC because he obviously knew Rangers were paying players via the EBT scheme and actively increased spending under it to get wan up ra sellick even though the club was being actively being investigated by the HMRC for abusing the EBT scheme by ripping the arse right out of it with non repayable loans.

Walter is a bad as they come when it applies to Rangers demise as he spent money knowing it could kill the club,but naw he takes the plaudits from the fans for winning trophies when a better plan of action might have been because he loves the club so much and told the fans out openly that David Murray could kill the club by using dodgy financial re-numerations and the HMRC were investigating the clubs dodgy finances.

Walter knew ! so guilty by association and complicit in the demise of Rangers and should not be seen as the hero the fans make him because he helped bankrupt the club in order to win trophies.

Again i'll ask this question;as a football manager who was given vast amounts of money to invest in players do you honestly believe that he would not use all funds at his disposal to bring in new players to improve the team. There is unlikely to be a manager walking that would not use such funds.

As for HMRC investigating the EBTs, how did that work out and did Smith, to your knowledge, benefit personally from them? In which way could he, as the manager, stop the use of them? After all they weren't illegal and as the manager i would think it was beyond his remit to influence stopping any tax saving scheme that Murray initiated, wouldn't you?

As for winning trophies,i would think it was vital that Rangers won the SPL for Champions League qualification in order to bring that money into the club. Murray was complicit in the downturn of investment in players because of pressure from Lloyds/TSB and he has to shoulder a major part of the blame here but there was only one man responsible for the liquidation of the PLC,Craig Whyte. Withholding PAYE and N.I. was the catalyst for the liquidation by HMRC,nothing to do with Smith.

[hellbhoy]

Again i'll ask this question;as a football manager who was given vast amounts of money to invest in players do you honestly believe that he would not use all funds at his disposal to bring in new players to improve the team. There is unlikely to be a manager walking that would not use such funds.

As for HMRC investigating the EBTs, how did that work out and did Smith, to your knowledge, benefit personally from them? In which way could he, as the manager, stop the use of them? After all they weren't illegal and as the manager i would think it was beyond his remit to influence stopping any tax saving scheme that Murray initiated, wouldn't you?

As for winning trophies,i would think it was vital that Rangers won the SPL for Champions League qualification in order to bring that money into the club. Murray was complicit in the downturn of investment in players because of pressure from Lloyds/TSB and he has to shoulder a major part of the blame here but there was only one man responsible for the liquidation of the PLC,Craig Whyte. Withholding PAYE and N.I. was the catalyst for the liquidation by HMRC,nothing to do with Smith.

I'll put it a little more plainly,,,, Walter says he has a deep love for the club,it doesn't matter one iota about the BTC outcome because at the time it was dead cert the HMRC were going to win it.

Walter is complicit in the downfall of Rangers PLC by actually signing players on EBT's when he clearly could have built a squad without using them in the good name of fairplay.

I don't agree with your philosophy of,if you can effectively cheat then do so by not playing by the rules which your club did break but got off on the technicality that they were not caught in the act when cheating and gave the old club a half million pound fine and let you keep your precious tainted titles.

Once again a Rangers fan does not think the club were found guilty of cheating in the LNS outcome because you got to keep your precious tainted titles and at the end of the day that's all that matters to Rangers fans having more titles than Celtic.

[Fotbawmad]

Hmmm.

'Our Hero' ;

New Rangers owner Craig Whyte arrived to a thunderous applause as he entered Ibrox for the very first time as the new owner of Rangers Football Club.

Following on from late night negotiations that concluded the long-winded saga, Whyte took his seat alongside the board of directors for the club’s crucial SPL match against Hearts today.

The new owner arrived in an understated fashion, but the sight of him sent the hundreds of waiting fans at the main entrance of Ibrox into raptures.

Interestingly, Whyte took his seat sitting shoulder to shoulder with one of the men he called into question last night, Chief Executive Martin Bain.

Constant friction between Whyte and the board was to blame for the lengthy takeover process. The board’s ‘sub-committee’ are still expressing serious doubts as to whether Whyte has sufficient funds to cope with a possible tax bill that could land on the Ibrox club’s doorstep, following ongoing HMRC investigations.

'Lack of clarity' from Rangers owner over funding for potential tax bill

The potential ill-feeling between Whyte and the board could be somewhat eased by Rangers’ emphatic 4-0 win over Hearts, further extending their lead at the top of the SPL to four points.

Rangers stopped short of unveiling Whyte on the field, but the fans are under no illusions that things will change at their club.

After 36 trophies in 22 years under Sir David Murray, Rangers are now entering the age of Craig Whyte, who after snapping up over 85% of the club’s shares, has pledged £25m over five years to invest in the team. The new owner is also expected to make a statement on a potential restructuring of the Rangers board.

With the Ibrox club now in poll position to secure the SPL title, but the lingering threats of board unrest and HMRC tax implications looming, it seems that the club may yet face further changes over the coming months. The long term vision of Craig Whyte is yet unclear, but the businessman appears to already have the full backing of the fans.

Rangers will now eagerly watch Celtic’s trip to Rugby Park on Sunday, before contemplating their next crucial encounter with Dundee United at Ibrox on Tuesday.

You gotta love that guy

[youngsy]

I'll put it a little more plainly,,,, Walter says he has a deep love for the club,it doesn't matter one iota about the BTC outcome because at the time it was dead cert HMRC were going to win it.

Walter is complicit in the downfall of Rangers PLC by actually signing players on EBT's when he clearly could have built a squad without using them in the good name of fairplay.

I don't agree with your philosophy of,if you can effectively cheat then do so by not playing by the rules which your club did break but got off on the technicality that they were not caught in the act when cheating and gave the old club a half million pound fine and let you keep your precious tainted titles.

Once again a Rangers fan does not think the club were found guilty of cheating in the LNS outcome because you got to keep your precious tainted titles and at the end of the day that's all that matters to Rangers fans having more titles than Celtic.

Such a dead cert that HMRC were going to win that they did indeed lose the FTT. As for the SPL Commission findings,again found guilty of non-disclosure,which did not give the club any sporting advantage on the field of play. That is two cases where the clubs position was upheld,just a shame that this is still eating away at you. Otherwise you wouldn't bother posting. Remind us again,was Walter Smith found to be a recipient of any EBT,even though at the time they were legal. Btw try and get your facts right,it was a £250,000 fine for non-disclosure, not £500,000. Wrong again.

[Bookies Love Me]

Such a dead cert that HMRC were going to win that they did indeed lose the FTT. As for the SPL Commission findings,again found guilty of non-disclosure,which did not give the club any sporting advantage on the field of play. That is two cases where the clubs position was upheld,just a shame that this is still eating away at you. Otherwise you wouldn't bother posting. Remind us again,was Walter Smith found to be a recipient of any EBT,even though at the time they were legal. Btw try and get your facts right,it was a £250,000 fine for non-disclosure, not £500,000. Wrong again.

Has anyone heard anything about how HMRC's appeal is going, or has it been dropped?

[stonedsailor]

Hmmm.

 

'Our Hero' ; 

 

New Rangers owner Craig Whyte arrived to a thunderous applause as he entered Ibrox for the very first time as the new owner of Rangers Football Club.

 

Following on from late night negotiations that concluded the long-winded saga, Whyte took his seat alongside the board of directors for the club’s crucial SPL match against Hearts today.

The new owner arrived in an understated fashion, but the sight of him sent the hundreds of waiting fans at the main entrance of Ibrox into raptures.

Interestingly, Whyte took his seat sitting shoulder to shoulder with one of the men he called into question last night, Chief Executive Martin Bain.

Constant friction between Whyte and the board was to blame for the lengthy takeover process. The board’s ‘sub-committee’ are still expressing serious doubts as to whether Whyte has sufficient funds to cope with a possible tax bill that could land on the Ibrox club’s doorstep, following ongoing HMRC investigations.

'Lack of clarity' from Rangers owner over funding for potential tax bill

 

The potential ill-feeling between Whyte and the board could be somewhat eased by Rangers’ emphatic 4-0 win over Hearts, further extending their lead at the top of the SPL to four points.

Rangers stopped short of unveiling Whyte on the field, but the fans are under no illusions that things will change at their club.

After 36 trophies in 22 years under Sir David Murray, Rangers are now entering the age of Craig Whyte, who after snapping up over 85% of the club’s shares, has pledged £25m over five years to invest in the team. The new owner is also expected to make a statement on a potential restructuring of the Rangers board.

With the Ibrox club now in poll position to secure the SPL title, but the lingering threats of board unrest and HMRC tax implications looming, it seems that the club may yet face further changes over the coming months. The long term vision of Craig Whyte is yet unclear, but the businessman appears to already have the full backing of the fans.

Rangers will now eagerly watch Celtic’s trip to Rugby Park on Sunday, before contemplating their next crucial encounter with Dundee United at Ibrox on Tuesday.

You gotta love that guy

Why? He's the one who saved Rangers by dumping all their debt and buying them back by proxy. If it wasn't for Whyte the bank would have called in the debt run up by Murray and closed Ibrox 2 or 3 years ago.

Sent from the European departure lounge, hoping we don't bottle it.

[No8.]

Bendarroch, Bennett and youngsy...you guys deserve a medal for even bothering with the haters. As soon as the start quoting terrorist lovers and disgraced lawyers yoy know it is all over

[captain kirk]

Bendarroch, Bennett and youngsy...you guys deserve a medal for even bothering with the haters. As soon as the start quoting terrorist lovers and disgraced lawyers yoy know it is all over

What have andy goram and donald finlay got to do with this?

[youngsy]

Has anyone heard anything about how HMRC's appeal is going, or has it been dropped?

No doubt you're well aware that the appeal is ongonig, hence the reason why i stated Rangers won the FTT.

[Bookies Love Me]

No doubt you're well aware that the appeal is ongonig, hence the reason why i stated Rangers won the FTT.

No. Just haven't heard anything.

[stonedsailor]

Has anyone heard anything about how HMRC's appeal is going, or has it been dropped?

No doubt you're well aware that the appeal is ongonig, hence the reason why i stated Rangers won the FTT.

They didn't win it though did they? Only a proportion of the individual cases were found to have been legit.

Sent from the European departure lounge, hoping we don't bottle it.

[weirdcal]

No doubt you're well aware that the appeal is ongonig, hence the reason why i stated Rangers won the FTT.

correct the appeal to UTT over the result (2-1) of the FTT is ongoing, unsure on what basis the appeal is on.

dont even think its started yet tbh

[williemillersmoustache]

Peace in our time?

Posted on May 8, 2013

1

As I make my daily trawl through blogs, newspaper articles and tweets I can’t help but spot a worrying trend starting to develop. One that every bear should be worried about.

This trend is the growing consensus that Rangers should ditch these Johnny-come-lately’s in favour of the old guard, the brown brogues and blazer wearers.

Most of it is just pure unadulterated snobbery from holier-than-thou types who sit back and sneer down their noses at “oiks” like Charles Green and his undignified outspoken behaviour.

No that kind of behaviour simply wouldn’t wash in the clubhouse after 18 holes don’t ya know, we don’t want “your kind” lowering the tone around here.

This trend started for me with a Tom English interview with Paul Murray slithering his way out of the woodwork to chastise us all and call for “core values” to return to Ibrox.

Then the other day we’ve got that delicate little flower Alex Rae in the Daily Record, no friend of Rangers I might add, telling us that he expects a certain level of decorum at Ibrox.

Followed by those paragons of virtue over the Rangers Standard, fresh from braking a damaging story about Rangers, telling us in a long-winded, waffling diatribe that “core values are long overdue”.

Then Graham Spiers, no stranger to the clubhouse, decides to echo these sentiments and throw his weight behind men like Ian Hart and Walter Smith who wants a peaceful reconciliation with the SFA and SPL.

Peace in our time.

There is an agenda being pushed here with these naive ramblings regarding some long-lost 1950′s morality that anyone connected with Rangers should extol. That it’s better to show a stiff upper lip, accept the slings and arrows and meet our enemies head on with a “dignified silence”.

There’s only one problem with that: It’s utter bullshit.

There seems to be some form of amnesia that’s taken hold of Rangers fans recently when they start talking about “core values” and “the Rangers way”. But let me remind you, we, as a club, as a support, are at war.

A war against a malignant group working through an agenda driven media to tear us down at every opportunity. Has everyone forgotten how our club was kicked to within an inch of its life? How our tax documents were leaked through the Rangers Tax Case blog? How our trial by media had us branded cheats before the trial? How they wanted our titles stripped as part of an effort to blackmail us for our entry back into the league?

This war hasn’t stopped, we’re still fighting it. Yet men who would stand up toe to toe with these cretins are being hounded out of Ibrox to allow the return of the softly softly brigade.

Walter Smith is a good man and a Rangers legend but he hasn’t the faintest concept what we’re up against or how to deal with it. He’ll happily stand like Neville Chamberlain waving a meaningless piece of paper proclaiming peace in our time as our enemies are fueling the tanks.

I reject this call for “core values” and “the Rangers way” because it will see us become limp, powerless weaklings crushed under the jackboot of those don’t abide by such lofty ideals.

Charles Green might have not have been everyone cup of tea but he wasn’t afraid to rattle cages.

Who will rattle those cages now? Walter Smith? Paul Murray?

While Bill Struth might not approve of such methods he certainly wouldn’t have seen Rangers grovelling to its enemies.

It’s time to wake up and to put away childish things.

Posted in Uncategorized | 1 Reply

After all the blogging chat over the last few days I thought this recent thing retweeted by Britney might shed some light and give some balance to the proceedings.

No wait, it's a bit mental isn't. We are at war! Are you, are you really? Who with exactly? The agenda men. The people who kicked wur club within an inch of its life? Here's the slightly old and tedious news sevco fans: You kicked yourselves a couple of feet beyond (~£140m) what is compatible with life. Then died. Then started lashing out like it was someone else's fault. It looks to me like the only war going on is within your own boardroom.

I neither know nor really care anything about cheated miners or terrorist links, or if Alex Thompson is a closet left footer, but if this is the standard of opposition no wonder we read rangerstaxcase, randomlawthoughts, thommoblogs and lean one way. I would have thought out of the half billion orcs worldwide one of them would be able to put the currants view across more succinctly. Unless of course this agenda, victim thing is just nonsense and its about time, if you want to be heard and taken seriously, you (as a fan base) need to stop foaming at the mouth, trying to rewrite history and engage honorably and sensibly with the Scottish game. The game you screwed, disgraced and then got all upset at because it started asking awkward questions.

Questions like who owns your club this week?

[youngsy]

They didn't win it though did they? Only a proportion of the individual cases were found to have been legit.

Sent from the European departure lounge, hoping we don't bottle it.

I would think that a 2-1 majority verdict under Scots Law or indeed any other legal process constitutes a win. Just my opinion though,along with the judicial system in Scotland.

[cyderspaceman]

2-1 at home in the first leg............squeaky bum time in the return. Away goals count double.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I would think that a 2-1 majority verdict under Scots Law or indeed any other legal process constitutes a win. Just my opinion though,along with the judicial system in Scotland.

You would think so, wouldn't you? The problem is, Youngsy, that the only cases in question were those with incomplete records available to the Tribunal. Where records existed, rangers either did not contest the findings, or were found to be liable. The verdict applied to a sizeable MINORITY of the cases in question. Sizeable, but still less than half, and mainly through lack of documentary evidence.

Kind of makes you wonder if they should have paid that shredder company, really. Best £444 (not) spent out of the whole scam, IMHO.

Edited May 9, 2013 by WhiteRoseKillie