Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[dave.j]

Most people would say that is proof enough to back up your claim, no doubt that Jackanory won't accept it.

^^^^

Knows himself that an interview with Johnston could never in a million years be taken as proof. Do you nutters believe everything in the Press?

So I'll ask again, do you have any proof?

[bennett]

The rangers boardroom - source of pure gospel when statements back up the horde's opinions.

The rangers boardroom - a nest of spivs when anything emerges which disagrees with the currant party line.

You lot are getting funnier by the post, with your desperate need to back up every moron who claims to follow follow. No other club seems to inspire such lunacy on here - and I include your former partners.

Bloody hell Norman, even for you thats stretching reality just a little too far.

[bennett]

A few weeks ago a blackmailer/blogger thought to be CF was arrested but unlike our 4 friends today this persons identity was withheld, which is pretty strange.

Has CF blown the whistle to get 'off the hook' so to speak and that is how his identity has been withheld or is it someone well known?

[flyingrodent]

Something odd going on here, with all these Rangers fans angrily announcing that Craig Whyte was a fraudster who ran Rangers as a borderline criminal conspiracy as if it were a revelation, and demanding that there must be an aggressive investigation to discover the full extent of wrongdoing with heavy punishments handed out.

Have they suddenly arrived here after a Tardis time-travel journey from 2012? I hate to sound like a hipster, but most of the rest of us were saying exactly this more than two years ago, back when the blue hordes were still picketing journalists and praying for the immediate destruction of the rest of Scottish football.

What's going to happen next year? Are the Rangers fans suddenly going to start furiously demanding that we all agree that nobody has ever been fined quarter of a million pounds for not cheating? Are they going to start posting lists of defrauded creditors and demanding that everyone else feel black, burning shame?

Still, I suppose it represents progress. It's a bit surprising that it's taken well over two years for the Bears to stop bombarding the BBC with teary emails and start looking at the causes of their club's demise, but Rome wasn't built in a day, eh?

Edited November 17, 2014 by flyingrodent

[bennett]

Not sure why Rodent is syaing that Rangers fans have just started calling Whyte a fraudster, not true.

We've been waiting a few years now for the various investigations to get results and it looks like we're finally getting closer to getting them.

[Henrik's tongue]

Something odd going on here, with all these Rangers fans angrily announcing that Craig Whyte was a fraudster who ran Rangers as a borderline criminal conspiracy as if it were a revelation, and demanding that there must be an aggressive investigation to discover the full extent of wrongdoing with heavy punishments handed out.

Have they suddenly arrived here after a Tardis time-travel journey from 2012? I hate to sound like a hipster, but most of the rest of us were saying exactly this more than two years ago, back when the blue hordes were still picketing journalists and praying for the immediate destruction of the rest of Scottish football.

What's going to happen next year? Are the Rangers fans suddenly going to start furiously demanding that we all agree that nobody has ever been fined quarter of a million pounds for not cheating? Are they going to start posting lists of defrauded creditors and demanding that everyone else feel black, burning shame?

Still, I suppose it represents progress. It's a bit surprising that it's taken well over two years for the Bears to stop bombarding the BBC with teary emails and start looking at the causes of their club's demise, but Rome wasn't built in a day, eh?

They'll be handing back tainted titles next.......

[flyingrodent]

Not sure why Rodent is syaing that Rangers fans have just started calling Whyte a fraudster, not true.

We've been waiting a few years now for the various investigations to get results and it looks like we're finally getting closer to getting them.

Don't do yourself down mate, you haven't just been "waiting". While the authorities slaved away at great public expense trying to unpick the gigantic mess of fraud and deceit that your club has foisted upon us all, you Rangers fans have done fantastic work picketing the BBC and vowing vengeance on other football teams and launching daft internet inquiries to discover the identity of some guy with a website.

While it's true that hardly any of you have spent even a tiny fraction of the energy that you ploughed into e.g. pursuing BBC commentators whose opinions you don't like, compared with worrying about the men who actually killed your club, you certainly did more than just "Wait".

Remember, you got that guy who writes the football programs fired and everything.

Edited November 17, 2014 by flyingrodent

[aDONisSheep]

Big bad Lloyds did it and ran away. Of course they weren't always so big and bad till there needed to be a scapegoat.

Alistair Johnston Feb 18 2010;

"I have to tell the supporters we have a real problem on our hands without Lloyds TSB,"

"The bank is trying to support our initiatives without compromising Walter Smith and Ally McCoist in their job of trying to field a competitive team for the rest of the season. The board, meanwhile, understands Lloyds need to be replaced.

"Going on as we are at the moment isn't desirable if we are to retain control over the club's destiny and avoid affecting the potential for future success.

"In the meantime, everyone has to work harder and work smarter and that's what Walter has done in the dressing room and Martin Bain, our chief executive has done in the boardroom."

Johnston insists Lloyd are just a stop-gap measure and that if they can secure UEFA Champions League football next season then they might be able to regain control of their finances.

"In no way would I criticise the fans, who are entitled to voice their opinions,"

"But as far as our relationship with Lloyds goes, it is working. We need them at this point in time.

"Murray (International Holdings) are not going to put any more money into the club, so we need the bank. They have been left holding the baby after the economic crisis hit Murray. The bank are our stop-gap measure.

"Clearly, getting into the Champions League again would be of significant benefit."

It seems the shyt would have hit the fan a lot earlier had it not been for the benign Lloyds. OldGers fans should be thanking them for giving them another year.

But, but, but, but, OldRangers were profit-making! OLDRANGERS WERE PROFIT-MAKING! It's all someone elses fault!

Yours

aDONis

[dave.j]

Tedi, a few years ago our financial director claimed that the bank were "turning the screw" on our small but manageable debt.

The ONLY way out, was to sell the West and South ends of the ground to members of the board. Coincidentally, the only two sides with full road access. That they would use to "develop" the ground. For the clubs 50% share in firhill developments, should the land be developed. The club will get £7000... But only after the directors investment is returned and their personal profit has been gained.

Has proof ever been provided to suggest his claim was accurate? No.

But to man, every one of them claimed to be good Thistle men. So it must be true, right?

[flyingrodent]

I have never picketed BBC, nor vowed any vengeance on football teams but I did laugh when the BTC guy did a runner (guilty)

I have been posting about how Murray and Whyte were to blame for over 2 years....as for Jum Spence I led the 'free speech for Jum' campaign.

The football programme guy...well he got himself fired.

Don't put yourself down like that, Ted. As I recall, you yourself did sterling work right here, demanding ruthless inquisitions into HMRC, whose behaviour you found incredibly suspect.

And I'm not ungracious, so I'll gladly confirm that you were always ready to lay lots of blame on both Murray and Whyte, provided that you were explicitly asked to and could be distracted from whatever bone of resentment you were gnawing upon long enough to do so.

[hellbhoy]

I did nothing of the sort, i never even mentioned which post it was until you mentioned it - i just felt you were harshly treated.

You're a naughty man sometimes Benny.

[hellbhoy]

Do you have proof that he was forced to sell?

Dave await the mandatory "here's a link that will self explode into Tedi's face".

Proof...well depends what you mean by proof of course.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15393428

Lloyds Bank threatened to cut Rangers' credit line if Craig Whyte's takeover of the club did not go ahead, it has been claimed.

Former chairman Alastair Johnston told a BBC documentary he was warned about obstructing the deal by an individual employed by the bank.

Speaking about the alleged threat from the individual at the bank, Mr Johnston said: "Let me paraphrase, I was told that if I stood in the way of this deal happening, they said we're gonna cancel your credit line tonight."

Regarding Sir David's part in the deal, Mr Johnston said: "David wasn't in control of his own destiny.

"He'd become so beholden to Lloyds Bank of Scotland, and Lloyds Bank of Scotland desperately wanted this deal to happen."

It certainly adds up, Murray was going to lose everything unless he played ball, he was desperate to complete a restructuring deal with the bank for his other business, the bank were refusing to do this until he offloaded Rangers, once he had completed the bank gave him the loan.

Huge fishy in a small barrel and a twelve gauge wide spread shot gun.

So Tedi you did post a self exploding link quoting "it has been claimed" at the beginning of the article.

Then when you get further down SDM was after a loan BUT ! wait for it !, he couldn't get said loan until he had offloaded the debt ridden and financially crippled club. SDM then sold the club for a £1 and then the bank gave SDM a loan for MIH or he would have lost everything including MIH.

So thank you Tedi for posting something that categorically and specifically says that Rangers FC if SDM didn't punt it off would have collapsed his empire and explains why Whyte bought the club for a pound. Well done Tedi I knew you had it in you.

[thelegendthatis]

Worth a read http://www.scribd.com/doc/93212354/SFA-Rangers-Note-of-Reasons

Some relevant parts showing the decision to sell to Whyte was Murray's, despite advice and concerns from Martin Bain.

The IBC was not established as a response to the potential sale of themajority shareholding to Mr Craig Whyte. It was formed in responseto the potential sale of the major shareholding to any purchaser. The proposed purchase of the majority shareholding by Mr Craig Whytefell clearly within the remit of the IBC. The IBC comprised AlastairJohnston (Chairman of the Board of Directors), Martin Bain (Chief Operating Officer and Executive Director), Donald McIntyre (ExecutiveFinance Director) John McClelland (Non-Executive Director), and John Greig (Non- Executive Director).25.

That in the course of a number of meetings in 2010 and 2011 with MrCraig Whyte both as a committee and as individual directors, anddespite close questioning of Mr Craig Whyte and his adviser Mr GaryWithey, Solicitor, of Collyer Bristow, London, the IBC remainedentirely uninformed and uncertain of the financial and personalstanding matters with which they were concerned. Mr Craig Whytedisclosed little or no information. Financial models for working capitalrequirements prepared by the finance officers and accountants of Rangers FC were repeatedly disputed and rejected by Mr Craig Whyteand Mr Withey. Mr Craig Whyte produced his own working capitalprojections which were wholly at variance with those of Rangers FC.The IBC was very concerned that despite their making all relevant confidential financial data available under secure conditions for the examination and scrutiny of Mr Craig Whyte and his advisers in a process of due diligence in their purchase consideration, almost no advantage was taken of this facility and hardly any enquiry or scrutiny of the detailed and confidential financial information about Rangers FC was carried out by or on behalf of Mr Craig Whyte or any of his companies. This failure to carry out ordinary “due diligence” enquiries served to increase the substantial concern felt by the IBC for themotives, the genuineness, the financial viability and the propriety of the proposed purchase by Mr Craig Whyte.26.

That the concerns of some members of the IBC were exacerbated inevery respect upon the commissioning, by an external third party, of aprivate investigation into the business, financial and personalbackground of Mr Craig Whyte. In March 2010 a substantial anddetailed report was prepared by investigators for the purposes of thatthird party but a copy was provided to the Chief Operating Officer Mr Martin Bain. He was very concerned at the information it contained.

22

The report provided no explanation for the acquisition through any of his companies of any personal wealth by Mr Craig Whyte. The reportcontained no reference to Mr Craig Whyte having on 13 June 2000been disqualified for a period of seven years from being a director of any company, pursuant to the Company Directors’ Disqualification Act

1986.27.

That Mr Bain was extremely concerned about the standing andsuitability of Mr Craig Whyte and his motives in purchasing themajority shareholding in Rangers FC. Mr Bain enjoyed a close workingrelationship with Sir David Murray. He had been appointed by Sir David Murray to his present role. Knowing Sir David Murray’s personal and individual approach to business matters he was apprehensive about raising his concerns with him and considered that there might be personal repercussions. He took the view that once he “crossedthe line” there would be no way back. Nevertheless he considered that it was appropriate to meet with Sir David Murray privately to express and if necessary emphasise his concerns at the proposed saleof the MIHL shares to Mr Craig Whyte. He met with Sir David Murrayin March 2011. He set out at length the matters which had been explored in the IBC and directors personal meetings with Mr Whyte and the lack of information which had been obtained. He expressedconcern at the lack of transparency and the lack of due diligencebeing carried out both by and towards Mr Craig Whyte by Sir David Murray and the Murray Group. Mr Bain disclosed the contents of theinvestigation report into Mr Craig Whyte and provided Sir DavidMurray with a copy of the report.28.

That Sir David Murray explained to Mr Bain that he was underpressure from Lloyds to dispose of and realise his MIHL shareholdingin Rangers FC to Mr Craig Whyte, and that in view of his overall financial position he was left with almost no option but to sell his shares to Mr Craig Whyte.

Edited November 17, 2014 by thelegendthatis

[hellbhoy]

Yet there were a fair few on here that praised him for a piece he did around 2 years ago.

No Dave I do not think Lloyds TSB are going to admit to forcing the sale, I am sure you will put your faith in such an organisation when it fits.

For me the facts speak for themselves, MIM financial state at the time, alongside the bailout once the sale had been finalised, it does not really bother me if you are unwilling to accept this.

This is not a defence of Murray, I have been consistent in my criticism of the man.

Read the article without the blue tinted specs Tedi, the article states that if SDM didn't get rid of the club the bank wouldn't give SDM a loan to save his MIH empire.

Option 1, keep the club and lose everything.

Option 2, fcuk the club and get rid of it at any cost to secure funds to keep the rest of his empire financially stable.

Which option do you think SDM took Tedi ?

[hellbhoy]

Yes I agree it proves Murray was forced to sell, but then I have been saying this for days, it is great you finally got it though, definite progress.

Tedi, you claimed the bank was forcing him to sell, this is not the case is it ?

The fact from your exploding link is that even though he sold the club for the mandatory pound is that SDM himself would have given Whyte a pound to take the club of his hands.

SDM wasn't forced to sell the club, he NEEDED to SELL the CLUB or he would have lost it all. There is a huge difference between needing to sell and being forced to sell and SDM took easy option of just dumping the club to the first idiot who came along.

[hellbhoy]

Otherwise he was being forced, I also believe the bit about the bank threatening to pull the plug on everything unless he sold to Whyte.

SDM wasn't forced ffs, he needed to sell the club or lose everything.

[hellbhoy]

What part of

David wasn't in control of his own destiny

Are you not understanding?

Dear God,

SDM had a choice, see his empire collapse under his own directorship during the financial collapse or get rid of a part of his empire to save the rest,,,,,,, oh wait a minute Tedi your right all along. The financial collapse from the big banking crash forced SDM to sell the club for a pound,,, nasty bassas them bankers in London eh.

OK you now have the dirty bassas bang to rights for killing your club, all you need to do is find the cnuts that were in charge of all the banks all over the planet and then you can blame them in person personally for the demise of Rangers FC. You should get on the Rangers forums and forward this revelation that all the banks on the planet killed Rangers FC. Poor por SDM got shafted by the banks and not that he made bad investments and can be traced back to Gordon Brown famously quoting "no more boom and bust" and so we have now narrowed it down to the banks all of them and Gordon Brown as the culprits.

I mean SDM ran Rangers FC under a prudent financial mechanism didn't he ?

GORDON BROWN KILLED RANGERS. THANKS GORDON or should I say BROONIE ?

Here was all of us P&B sleuths blaming poor auld SDM for running the club badly and eventually the club keeled over and farted for the last time. We got that wrong didn't we.

[aofjays]

What part of

David wasn't in control of his own destiny

Are you not understanding?

You'd believe if Murray took a leap off a cliff it's not his fault if he dies at the bottom because he was forced to hit the ground.

[lodmoorhill]

I can understand that the bank wanted Murray to offload Rangers.

I can understand that Murray had to do it if he wanted to save other businesses.

I can understand why they were sold for a pound.

I can't understand, and I've seen no explanation, as to why it had to be to Whyte. If the bank wanted the club off their books, then surely it didn't give a flying f**k who it was sold to? It made no difference whatsoever.

Murray seems to have had more than enough information that Whyte was utterly unsuitable, but sold it to him anyway. As the free for all over the carcass of Rangers shows, there would have been others willing to chuck a pound at the club.

I wouldn't claim any other candidate would have been any better than Whyte, but it does appear that Whyte was the chosen one.

[hellbhoy]

I know.

I deliberately gave you a new signature because the one you already have makes my eyes bleed.

You fucked this up chump didn't ya

Update No1, Rangers FC were going to ruin SDM's empire so SDM ruined Rangers FC instead. Delicious reading Tedi.