Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[BinoBalls]

Obviously the capacity of the stadium is the reason why so many miss out,well done on that. However read my post again,then perhaps you'll understand the point being made. In fact i'll ask the question; all these fans of provincial clubs that turn out for Cup Finals en masse,where are they during the season for normal league games? Perhaps if they turned out for these games instead of just a Final they may well be more competitive throughout the season and in a healthier position financially. Your question about a 2500,000 capacity Ibrox is just nonsense btw. Perhaps you'll get that but i doubt it.

Oh FFS I despair, although I have to say I fully expected you would ignore the point and go back to some unspecific guff about gloryhunters. Meanwhile the point I am making -- which is that Rangers have exctly the same proportion of once-a-season glory hunters -- went sailing way high up over your head.

Firstly, I'll answer your point: when teams get to special cup finals, once a decade or once in a generation occasions, then extra hangers on turn up. The sort of people who usually go to 1 (or none) games all season all want to see the spectacle. Ideally they would turn up week in, week out, but they don't, because they aren't hardcore fans, and they are lured in by the spectacle and the chance of success. Ok? We all happy so far?

Now, let me ask my question again:

Part 1

If Ibrox had a capacity of 250,000, what would the average attendance at Ibrox be this season? It's not a hard question to answer. (Here's a clue: check your average crowd this season, the answer will be the same)

Part 2

When you settle on a figure, please explain why 250,000 went to Manchester, if only {insert-your-answer-here} go every week to Ibrox.

Now, my questions are crystal clear. Let's see if you manage a straight answer this time, without defecting back onto this already-agreed stuff about gloryhunters seeking tickets for cup finals, or shouting "But Ibrox only holds 52,000! Don't be silly!" as that might make me suspect you aren't grasping the concept of percentages, thus indicating you may have an IQ under 80.

The point is: all clubs experience this phenomenon, not just QOS or St Mirren or whoever, but Rangers and Celtic as well. When a huge game comes along, lots of extra part-timers want a piece.

[BinoBalls]

So are any Rangers fans concerned about what's going on at Ibrox now that Whyte is back on the scene?

As much as it would tickle me to see them in trouble, Whyte is clearly unhinged and almost psychotic, almost everything he says is a lie. I wouldn't be overly concerned if I was a Rangers fan.

[stonedsailor]

As much as it would tickle me to see them in trouble, Whyte is clearly unhinged and almost psychotic, almost everything he says is a lie. I wouldn't be overly concerned if I was a Rangers fan.

I see what you did there

[Monkey Tennis]

all these fans of provincial clubs that turn out for Cup Finals en masse,where are they during the season for normal league games?

They are elsewhere.

Who are you criticising here Youngsy?

Don't say it's just an observation, because the value of it would be up there with the one about night following day.

[wunfellaff]

Just a thought.

From memory, Sir Craig couldn't be sold the assets of the corpse. This applied to anybody acting on his behalf.

If what he said is correct the assets can't go to him anyways.

Would they default to BDO for disposal?

[lodmoorhill]

Not concerned about Whyte in the slightest, if these pre-cva tapes were in anyway useful to him then he would not have sold them to the Sun, the man is a bafoon wo will f**k off for another six months before resurfacing.

Concerned about Green but then this feeling is not something new, 70% of Rangers fans do not trust him and probably never will.

I think you should be concerned about Whyte. Whatever is going on, it looks like Whyte and Green were in this together.

Whyte is an asset stripping, untrustworthy con man, but then again, that's what Sheffield United supporters thought about Green.

It's now gone from Green saying he wasn't in bed with Whyte, to now saying he was in bed with him but it was a one night stand and he didn't really love him and the money was only resting in his account. It's a train smash whichever way you look at it.

If Whyte really was part of Sevco 5088 and Green did con him by transferring the company assets to another company, then it's a legal minefield causing more uncertainty at Ibrox. Every statement by Green seems to be raising more questions than it's answering.

What makes me think there may be some substance to Whyte's claims is the way Green has come out fighting and raging instead of just laughing the whole thing off.

The whole thing stinks, and I'm surprised that Rangers supporters aren't banging on the doors of Ibrox demanding answers, especially with everything they have had to put up with in the last couple of years.

[bennett]

And also to find the first post of mine you can to red-dot. A harmless, if piss-poor joke. What happened to banter, Bennett?

I take it you've realised that pointless stalking and vitriol is much more your thing. Fair enough. Now f**k off.

Use em or lose em Norm.

[TheLip69]

I am not trying to argue the rights or wrongs of religion to sell football, you are.

Ah right, so when Man Utd won the euro cup in the 60`s they were not a huge club then, or are you counting this as the modern era?

My mate who I met in 1990 had supported them since a child, he was brought up in Burton upon Trent, so by my reckoning he started supporting them in the early seventies, was this the modern era?

So Man City are not Man Utd`s rival then?

Of course they were a big club then, the 1960s was a golden era for Football, particularly in England. Man U are a special case though, the disaster at Munich, as Man U will readily admit, brought an awful lot of sympathy for the club, and many new fans.

The golden era with the triumvirate of Best, Charlton, and Law also saw them as the peoples club around that era. The European Cup in 1968 virtually cemented Man U as one of Englands greatest clubs bringing even more fans from around the country. Fergies sides doination of English Football for the past two decades has virtually confirmed their dominance.

Given that in the 1970s Burton Albion were a fairly lowly non league club and Man U one of Englands biggest and most entertaining clubs, his decision to support Man U is probably up there with someone from Bathgate deciding to support Hibs. In other words has no relation to the point you are trying to make.

[wunfellaff]

Just a thought 2

Green has admitted to receiving cash from The Hero. This means The Hero has involvement with the International Football Club, in contravention of his life ban by the SFA.

Possible sanctions against newco.?

[wunfellaff]

That pretty much clears the deeds up then, also puts to bed the floating charge myth.

Wasn't it sevco 5088 that was meant to have floating charge?

[10 CC ICT]

Could the EBT payments be translated by FIFA as state support? If so the money must be paid back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22037966

[10 CC ICT]

f**k knows how you got that, the state was never involved in any of the EBT`s

If they allow interest & tax free "loans", they are. Finance is regulated in this country.

[wunfellaff]

From the scottish football monitor, ie what was the RTC blog................................Interesting even if a lot is supposition. Would mean Craigy is still on the scene and by feck they are far from 'debt free'...........

I thought you knew, you have repeated several times it was CW (I just checked)

Anyway this kindproves the floating charge is just another myth.

And the detail from my post in August says no myth.....the forms were registered, although not the 5088 entity. Think its in my mind due to the application to strike them off.

RFCG is the holding co for RFC(IA) RFCG(wholly owned by Craig Whyte) has a floating charge over the assets of RFC for whatever debt was owed by RFC to RFCG The floating charge is described on Form MGO1 at Companies House Form MGO1 is used to register Particulars of a mortgage or charge in England Wales and Northern Ireland Meaning In the event of the liquidation of RFC the RFCG floating charge takes preference over all other Creditors. So all debt due to RFCG under the floating charge has to be satisfied before any other Creditor can be paid. When RFC went into administration the debt owed by RFC to RFCG was alleged to be £27.5m. D&P did not accept or reject this figure. They simply listed the RFC debt to RFCG as TBA in the Creditors List So it is open for any Creditor of RFC to challenge the validity of the £27.5m floating charge held by RFCG over RFC if and when CW made a claim against the assets of RFC when they are liquidated But Is CW likely to be remotely interested in making a floating charge claim over RFC assets when they add up to zero? Of course not and heres why

On 24 March 2012 Liberty Corporate Ltd took out a floating charge over all the assets of RFCG Meaning In the event of the liquidation of RFCG the Liberty Corporate floating charge takes preference over all other Creditors. So all debt due to Liberty Corporate under the floating charge has to be satisfied before any other RFCG Creditor can be paid. When RFC went into administration the debt owed by RFC to RFCG was alleged to be £27.5m. D&P did not accept or reject this figure. They simply listed the RFC debt to RFCG as TBA in the Creditors List Then On 6 July 2012 details of the RFCG floating charge described above were registered with Companies House by Sevco Scotland Limited. using Form MGO6 This form is used to record Particulars of a charge subject to which property has been acquired by a company registered in Scotland ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, This means that when Sevco Scotland acquired the assets of RFC(IA) they were obliged to register the Liberty Corporate Floating Charge over RFCG which in turn has a floating charge over the assets of RFC I`m no lawyer but it would appear to me that this obligation on Sevco to register an MG05s affecting RFCG and Liberty Corporate can only have one meaning Which is When Sevco purchased the assets of RFC(IA) it did not get a clean title to the assets.This suggests Craig Whyte agreed to the sale on condition that his floating charge moved with the assets. This claim is now formally registered by Sevco at Companies House as a claim against the RFC assets purchased from D&P Significantly Moving the floating charge with the assets ensures none of the RFC Creditors can challenge the CW floating charge without challenging the D&P sale to Green It also means Green can argue that Sevco has a debt of £27.5m This gives the bad guys an argument to siphon off £27.5m after the share issue in October 2012."

[youngsy]

Oh FFS I despair, although I have to say I fully expected you would ignore the point and go back to some unspecific guff about gloryhunters. Meanwhile the point I am making -- which is that Rangers have exctly the same proportion of once-a-season glory hunters -- went sailing way high up over your head.

Firstly, I'll answer your point: when teams get to special cup finals, once a decade or once in a generation occasions, then extra hangers on turn up. The sort of people who usually go to 1 (or none) games all season all want to see the spectacle. Ideally they would turn up week in, week out, but they don't, because they aren't hardcore fans, and they are lured in by the spectacle and the chance of success. Ok? We all happy so far?

Now, let me ask my question again:

Part 1

If Ibrox had a capacity of 250,000, what would the average attendance at Ibrox be this season? It's not a hard question to answer. (Here's a clue: check your average crowd this season, the answer will be the same)

Part 2

When you settle on a figure, please explain why 250,000 went to Manchester, if only {insert-your-answer-here} go every week to Ibrox.

Now, my questions are crystal clear. Let's see if you manage a straight answer this time, without defecting back onto this already-agreed stuff about gloryhunters seeking tickets for cup finals, or shouting "But Ibrox only holds 52,000! Don't be silly!" as that might make me suspect you aren't grasping the concept of percentages, thus indicating you may have an IQ under 80.

The point is: all clubs experience this phenomenon, not just QOS or St Mirren or whoever, but Rangers and Celtic as well. When a huge game comes along, lots of extra part-timers want a piece.

First of all nothing went right over my head and as for your stupid idiotic analogy of a stadium capacity of 250,000 i won't dignify that nonsense with an answer, Suffice to say that Ibrox and Celtic park attract 40,000-60,000 every week over the course of any season. The whole point is not any other clubs fans get close to their clubs capacity at anytime over a season, save a game against the Glasgow clubs and yet at cup finals they turn out like the glory hunters they are. We're speaking of domestic cup finals here when these fans turn out,reality not fucking fantasy like stadium capacity of 250,000. N

Edited April 6, 2013 by youngsy

[mylothedog]

Tedders, dead right. We realy do not care what a person's religion is. Somehow this bothers folk as we are meant to be demonised as Catholic-hating bigots. In truth we do not give a f**k.

......and yet you both followed a team which, at the time, refused to sign catholics. Never understood what type of man could do this.

[Fotbawmad]

So has Chuckie effectivley admited to obtaining company assets by deception?

f**k knows how you got that, the state was never involved in any of the EBT`s

They were more or less involved with funding oldco when Murray was running the club.

[BinoBalls]

First of all nothing went right over my head and as for your stupid idiotic analogy of a stadium capacity of 250,000 i won't dignify that nonsense with an answer, Suffice to say that Ibrox and Celtic park attract 40,000-60,000 every week over the course of any season. The whole point is not any other clubs fans get close to their clubs capacity at anytime over a season, save a game against the Glasgow clubs and yet at cup finals they turn out like the glory hunters they are. We're speaking of domestic cup finals here when these fans turn out,reality not fucking fantasy like stadium capacity of 250,000. N

Look at that, you ducked the question AGAIN because I have made a valid point that doesn't suit your stupidly thought-out argument. Lets try another question: Why did Rangers attract 210,000 MORE fans to Manchester than go to their home games? And why is this any different to other clubs?

Honestly I didn't think you'd take the No Surrender mindset into an online debate: even when caught talking pish, still refuse to admit it.

[Monkey Tennis]

First of all nothing went right over my head and as for your stupid idiotic analogy of a stadium capacity of 250,000 i won't dignify that nonsense with an answer, Suffice to say that Ibrox and Celtic park attract 40,000-60,000 every week over the course of any season. The whole point is not any other clubs fans get close to their clubs capacity at anytime over a season, save a game against the Glasgow clubs and yet at cup finals they turn out like the glory hunters they are. We're speaking of domestic cup finals here when these fans turn out,reality not fucking fantasy like stadium capacity of 250,000. N

You're just being daft here.

Rangers and Celtic have far more fans than the others. We know this and understand it. It says pretty unimpressive things about our country, but we accept it because we must.

When teams enjoy success, more people jump aboard. This is true of diddies; it's also true of the OF, as evidenced by the numbers taken to Euro finals in the last decade. For finals featuring the two, more tickets could be sold than any of our grounds can cater for. The fact that Bino said as much somehow enabled you to dismiss his point, presumably on architectural grounds, given the challenges involved in constructing a stadium to take a quarter of a million people, a point he was at no stage making.

I'll ask again the questions you've thus far chosen to ignore: What is your point? Who, if anyone are you criticising?

If you're not, why are you repeatedly, merely saying that the OF have lots of fans? It's about as self-evident as can be imagined.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Use em or lose em Norm.

Fair enough.

[Monkey Tennis]

250k stadiums 500k stadiums, you were the guythat yesterday was dismissing me for compairing Glasgow to Manchester, please give me some of what you are smoking, space cadet.

That's pretty pathetic to be honest.

You know absolutely fine well that no suggestion about bigger stadia is being made. The point relates entirely to demand to see big games, but you wish instead to address a point nobody is attempting to make.

I honestly don't know if it's because things have possibly taken a worrying turn at Ibrox again, but the contributions from some Rangers fans on here have got ridiculous in the last day or two. It's a pity (not the first part obviously).