Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Apache Don]

That would only be true if the share issue was for 100% of the shares, it was not, in fact it was for less than 50%.

Why don't you just change your name to anonymous?

[AberdeenBud]

An obsessed blogger has seemingly done ra peeps a favour and crunched the numbers for them;

Here is my SB sales calculation.

SB Income SPFL 13/14 as SPFL2

Adult - 29,000 £258 £7,482,000
Concessionary - 3,000 £179 £537,000
Child - 2,000 £65 £130,000
Total - 34,000 £8,149,000 call it £8m

Lets assume it has all been collected (installment payments being paid via a Finance co so The Rangers have the money.)

Lets also assume the £1,740,585 VAT due has not been paid (yet or ever)

So if they have £10m in bank there was only £2m in the start kitty for this season before £8M SB income added.

This seems really low compared to the £7m to £8m being reported, I had worked on a start figure of £7,5M and after adding other income and deducting expenditure reckoned they had a negative balance of £1.5m at end of season.

If however the start point is £2M then negative balance increases to £6.5m at seasons end. But that is with other income streams that are spread over the season (like match day tickets) without which administration hastens.

I have £22M as expenditure over the season so if they have £10M and spend is even over season they reach halfway say December before running out of gas, but if I were HMRC I’d be getting the VAT on the tickets in pdq.

I’ll hold off uploading calcs in case some clarification emerges to smooth concerns.

PS to get in the black by end of season the player weekly wage has to average £830 per week.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is the spreadsheet that supports the above. The calculated bottom line is £8.360M and the £1m adjustment below it is to reflect the money (£7.3m) folk were saying is left in the kitty before last night’s meeting. That suggested £10m left including ticket sales so bottom line after adjustment for ST sales of £8m would be £2m.

In order to reflect that the adjusting figure should be raised to £6m which increases the red line at season end by £5m..

The file is at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B62m3ggkEX2RZzZaYTFOYkUySjQ/edit?usp=drive_web but if you want to download to play around with the figures its at.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddilu3gk2y4iy85/Rangers%20Break%20even%20Bus%20Case.xls

The key is wages which are set at £3240pw to tie in with the wage bill total in the Interims. If £2m is the start point, the weekly wage would have to be around £850 a week to break even by season end. If the file is downloaded the variables like wages can be changed to see the impact on totals.

[AberdeenBud]

The Rabble Rouser talking utter pish just for change. If anyone should be unsettled it should be you for having the brass neck to claim a a salary that completely belies your abilities and your clumpanies standing. Talking about his shareholding as well, IIRC he got in at at a penny too(lucky him) so he will be making another killing on ra peeps again whenever the club is sold. One of the worst offenders for having his snout in the trough. And they lap him up, says it all really.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RANGERS manager Ally McCoist says every employee of the Ibrox club has been “unsettled” by the latest off-the-field troubles to engulf it in the wake of Charles Green’s return as a consultant and Walter Smith’s resignation as chairman.

After a close season of relative calm, Rangers have been plunged into a fresh bout of turmoil with a group of shareholders, led by businessman Jim McColl and former director Paul Murray, calling for an egm to remove chief executive Craig Mather, finance director Brian Stockbridge and non-executive director Bryan Smart from the board.

McCoist, who has not spoken to Green since the Yorkshire businessman’s re-emergence, is keen for the power struggle to be resolved without recourse to a costly and rancorous egm. As a shareholder himself, McCoist would have a vote at any such meeting and says it would be “stupid” of him not to exercise it. While he refused to declare how he would cast it, McCoist did re-iterate his backing for Mather and stood by his criticism of Green whom he branded an “embarrassment” last weekend.

“The last week has unsettled the workforce,” said McCoist. “I mean the players and staff. But we’ve been through this before and we will get through it again.

“If there’s no need to go to an egm and things can get sorted, then fantastic. Whether decisions are made before or at the meeting is immaterial to me, I just want the decision to be made and for everyone to get together and once and for all think about the future of the club and move on.

“If it goes to the egm, there are financial costs and it maybe drags our dirty linen out a wee bit more into the public which we never did for 138 years. But we have become quite good at it in recent years. I haven’t made my mind up yet as to whether or not I will abstain from voting as a shareholder.

“But at this stage I would say that if you have a vote you’d be stupid not to use it. I have not decided whether I will go public or not. I don’t want to get involved in who are the right guys to get sacked and who are the wrong guys to get sacked. I can only give you my opinion on Craig Mather as chief executive and the working relationship I have with him.

“There are a lot of things going on behind the scenes, it would be foolish of me not to acknowledge that. But I believe the relationship between the chief executive and manager is probably the most important at the club. Craig Mather has backed me to bring new players in, so how can I be anything other than supportive of him when he has been so supportive of me? He is someone I can talk to and I do talk to him on a regular basis.”

McCoist and Mather both attended a meeting of Rangers supporters on Thursday night where finance director Stockbridge revealed the club had only £10 million left in the bank following last December’s £22 million share flotation and the sale of around 34,000 season tickets.

“The fans are 100 per cent right to be concerned about their club,” added McCoist. “They were looking for clarity on a few issues at the meeting and when you have fans who care about their club in that manner, you wouldn’t expect anything else.

“I thought the meeting went well in the respect that the fans got some answers to a lot of the questions. Without doubt, all the fans who were there had a voice and their voice was heard.”

McCoist made it plain he sees no need to rebuild a relationship with Green whose comments in a newspaper article on the morning of last Saturday’s League Cup first round defeat at Forfar Athletic angered the Rangers team boss so much.

“I think Charles is (just) a shareholder now,” said McCoist. “So there is no real reason for me to talk to Charles. I made my views, I would have thought, crystal clear last Saturday – and that’s all I’ve got to say on it really now, I just want to go on about football. I’ve got nothing to do with what action the club or the board will take (against Green). They’ll do what they see fit on that.”

McCoist insists he does not feel under greater personal strain as a result of the latest developments which have cast a fresh could over his club.

“I don’t think I’ve been under any more pressure this week than I have for the last two years,” he said. “That’s just the way the last 24 months have been. There have been times within that you think things are getting better only to take a couple of steps back.””

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ally-mccoist-says-rangers-employees-unsettled-1-3039346

[Apache Don]

This bothers you? best go complain to Div then accident.

? Twat

[Taxi for Ben]

You'll find out at the end of August when the accounts are published what the true state of the finances are for the season ahead.

[AberdeenBud]

Not trying to pour water on your obsessed blogger or defend the details from the meeting, some of which were pretty shitty (expected)

But £258 is not the average price of the adult ST, the majority are over £300.

What about the ST`s that are being paid in instalments, somehow I doubt this money has hit the bank account yet since it certainly has not left mine.

Its also being reported that Rangers have no O/D facility, how does that tie into his £1.5M negative balance at the end of last season.

I do not think he thought it through.

Hello Ted, not sure on the veracity of this, just seemed a bit more thought through than some of the pluck from thin air figures both 'sides' can grasp at. but,

1) Not sure on the season ticket prices, think they were taken from the interms and he is just guessing at the breakdown but the overall income will be the same, if the average is higher perhaps there is more concessions and less 'normal' ST holders.

2) He does say he is accounting for a finance company providing cash the ST's that are being paid in installments. I imagine this can be quite common practice at football clubs.

3) I read the negative balance for the end of this season, although he does state this is probably over egging your financial affairs given the astonishing 10million figure provided by the bonus happy financial director last night.

[AberdeenBud]

I'm hoping HBQC will be all over that spreadsheet like a tramp on chips.

[Taxi for Ben]

Don't forget to deduct 20% V.A.T. off your season ticket sales.

[K Dodd]

Don't forget to deduct 20% V.A.T. off your season ticket sales.

Yes, and don't forget they are exempt from VAT, NI and PAYE because they are the people,

[AberdeenBud]

1) the £258 is the lowest price Adult ST available in the whole stadium, only the rear Broomloan stand, upper govan ST`s are £360, Club Deck £400, he used worst case scenario and applied it to everything, hardly a way to build a credible argument.

2) If my instalments were managed by a finance company then I would have to sign a consumer credit agreement, I did not.

3) Yes I think he is guilty of over-egging.

Thanks for that info, was unsure how much faith to place in some of the figures, but he does see to have done his homework on some areas if not all.

TBH, it doesn't really matter, if Stockbridge's 10million figure was even remotely ballpark there's no way you can make the end of the season without further investment or administration.

[Fotbawmad]

An obsessed blogger has seemingly done ra peeps a favour and crunched the numbers for them;

Here is my SB sales calculation.

SB Income SPFL 13/14 as SPFL2

Adult - 29,000 £258 £7,482,000

Concessionary - 3,000 £179 £537,000

Child - 2,000 £65 £130,000

Total - 34,000 £8,149,000 call it £8m

Lets assume it has all been collected (installment payments being paid via a Finance co so The Rangers have the money.)

Lets also assume the £1,740,585 VAT due has not been paid (yet or ever)

So if they have £10m in bank there was only £2m in the start kitty for this season before £8M SB income added.

This seems really low compared to the £7m to £8m being reported, I had worked on a start figure of £7,5M and after adding other income and deducting expenditure reckoned they had a negative balance of £1.5m at end of season.

If however the start point is £2M then negative balance increases to £6.5m at seasons end. But that is with other income streams that are spread over the season (like match day tickets) without which administration hastens.

I have £22M as expenditure over the season so if they have £10M and spend is even over season they reach halfway say December before running out of gas, but if I were HMRC I’d be getting the VAT on the tickets in pdq.

I’ll hold off uploading calcs in case some clarification emerges to smooth concerns.

PS to get in the black by end of season the player weekly wage has to average £830 per week.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is the spreadsheet that supports the above. The calculated bottom line is £8.360M and the £1m adjustment below it is to reflect the money (£7.3m) folk were saying is left in the kitty before last night’s meeting. That suggested £10m left including ticket sales so bottom line after adjustment for ST sales of £8m would be £2m.

In order to reflect that the adjusting figure should be raised to £6m which increases the red line at season end by £5m..

The file is at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B62m3ggkEX2RZzZaYTFOYkUySjQ/edit?usp=drive_web but if you want to download to play around with the figures its at.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddilu3gk2y4iy85/Rangers%20Break%20even%20Bus%20Case.xls

The key is wages which are set at £3240pw to tie in with the wage bill total in the Interims. If £2m is the start point, the weekly wage would have to be around £850 a week to break even by season end. If the file is downloaded the variables like wages can be changed to see the impact on totals.

They don't have enough money coming in to cover the cost of their stadium and non-playing staff. Let alone pay their players top SPL wages.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Fotbawmad

[Bendarroch]

Then, as I'm a diddy clubber, I am noted as a complete w**k.

I imagine you thought that was quite clever.

[Bendarroch]

It's difficult to get Rangers fans to admit to anything - You deserve everything you get.

I'll happily admit this - what we'll get, inevitably, is a rise back to the very top of Scottish fitba. Once there - we'll be horsing your debt-ridden bunch of diddies all over again, time after time.

You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

However, so we are clear, I can say with complete sincerity that I hope your club isn't there on our return because you have failed to manage the horrendous debt you have gathered. Even though - as publicly declared by the WKR - administration to shed that debt is a desirable path for Killie - I hope it completely and utterly destroys your club for decades to come. Your scabby, needy club, after all, has the supporters who begged the sporting wingers to please not boycott your ground pretty please.

You'll deserve everything you get.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I'll happily admit this - what we'll get, inevitably, is a rise back to the very top of Scottish fitba. Once there - we'll be horsing your debt-ridden bunch of diddies all over again, time after time.

You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

However, so we are clear, I can say with complete sincerity that I hope your club isn't there on our return because you have failed to manage the horrendous debt you have gathered. Even though - as publicly declared by the WKR - administration to shed that debt is a desirable path for Killie - I hope it completely and utterly destroys your club for decades to come. Your scabby, needy club, after all, has the supporters who begged the sporting wingers to please not boycott your ground pretty please.

You'll deserve everything you get.

I didn't say that, Bendarroch. You know it, I know it, Everyone knows it.

Administration and a takeover would be preferable to a long, protracted death under Johnston. That's what I stated. In the same way as protracted chemotherapy is preferable to dying of cancer.

I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

That you are taking satisfaction in clubs experiencing difficulty for whatever reason, and wanting them to join your old club in the morgue, sort of encapsulates why so many feel as they do about rangers, their Tribute Act, and the "fans" who claim allegiance to both. Strange, though, how you feel all your new club's "enemies" will die, when the most spectacular corporate suicide of recent years has resulted, in your deluded head, in "the same club, just a new company".

MT has you pretty well summed up. Buzzword bingo on every post, a complete denial of reality, abuse towards posters, and casual snide sectarian remarks as a garnish.

In other words, a stupid, repetitive, vindictive, ignorant, bigoted wee no-mark. It must realy piss you off that, no matter how loudly you crow the Party Line, you don't even get enough rep points from rangers posters to get out of the red. Even fucking Bennecky manages that.

Oh, and BTW - "Back"?

[theoriginalhedge]

I find it very sad that there has been no shame and no humility shown at all by The Rangers or their fans over the whole sordid , sorry mess that their club now finds itself in . You would think that after the events of a couple of seasons ago they would maybe think twice about overspending for success and the fans would keep them in their place . But no , here we go again . A club so desperate for world domination that they stop at nothing to get their own way.

They have become so used to riding roughshod over everyone and everything , that humility and reasoning doesn't even come in to their thinking.

All we can hope for is that they do implode again, only this time Charlie , do it right eh ? !!!

[Ken Fitlike]

Glenn Gibbons in the Scotsman with decent piece on Walter Smith's shifting loyalties...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/glenn-gibbons-walter-smith-s-shifting-loyalties-1-3039381

The first person in the comments section uses a term that I like....'Walter Myth'

[Bendarroch]

I didn't say that, Bendarroch. You know it, I know it, Everyone knows it.

But, WKR, it is what you meant. I can only guess it's another piss-poor attempt to hide your faked Killie credentials - you do know what you said, and that's why your hoping to disguise your latest shame.

You said: "It is beginning to look more and more as if admin is the only way that we'll get rid of the slimy currantophile. A price well worth paying."

I never thought I'd see the day when I had a hope shared with WKR - but there you have it, we both want the very worst for Killie. And I think that surely removes the very last doubt about your absolutely faked support for Killie.

What kind of supporter wants their club to face going down the fucking tubes, WKR?

Edited August 10, 2013 by Bendarroch

[Owsley]

I'll happily admit this - what we'll get, inevitably, is a rise back to the very top of Scottish fitba. Once there - we'll be horsing your debt-ridden bunch of diddies all over again, time after time.

You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

However, so we are clear, I can say with complete sincerity that I hope your club isn't there on our return because you have failed to manage the horrendous debt you have gathered. Even though - as publicly declared by the WKR - administration to shed that debt is a desirable path for Killie - I hope it completely and utterly destroys your club for decades to come. Your scabby, needy club, after all, has the supporters who begged the sporting wingers to please not boycott your ground pretty please.

You'll deserve everything you get.

Just concentrate your mind on your new club making it unscathed to the end of the season, there's a good chap.

[Ken Fitlike]

Just concentrate your mind on your new club making it unscathed to the end of the season, there's a good chap.

'end of december' more like

[Dr Koop]

I'll happily admit this - what we'll get, inevitably, is a rise back to the very top of Scottish fitba. Once there - we'll be horsing your debt-ridden bunch of diddies all over again, time after time.

You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

However, so we are clear, I can say with complete sincerity that I hope your club isn't there on our return because you have failed to manage the horrendous debt you have gathered. Even though - as publicly declared by the WKR - administration to shed that debt is a desirable path for Killie - I hope it completely and utterly destroys your club for decades to come. Your scabby, needy club, after all, has the supporters who begged the sporting wingers to please not boycott your ground pretty please.

You'll deserve everything you get.

You were doing so well. Nothing wrong with having ambitions for your club - then the la-la land entitlement pills kicked in.

You can't get back to where you've never been.