Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[somecallmetim]

Sorry if this is a bit on topic but has anyone seen convincing looking figures for season ticket sales?

[Bing (2)]

17,000.

I was convinced.

'However', as the majority are yoofs, even the odd £500 a seat boyo doesn't help that much. Esp as they are paying them up

They will still get large crowds 'if' they make it to the start of the season, but that is their cash flow projections all screwed.

Happy daze fellow bearz.

[somecallmetim]

17000?

That's not going to be enough is it? Even if they were all full price that would only just about cover player wages and bog all else. Why do you say mostly yoofs?

[NotfromFifehonest]

but but but - super McSalary has signed super McKenny - ST sales are set to go thru the roof - crayon muncher has been on cloud 9 ever since the scoop signing.

Edited June 7, 2014 by NotfromFifehonest

[Monkey Tennis]

Is there not an argument that says that shifting something like 15,000 - 25,000 tickets is the worst of both worlds for many of the worried fans?

It doesn't starve the regime of the funds needed to limp along and even sign some players; yet unless outgoings are slashed radically, it won't be enough to sustain them indefinitely.

Genuinely, what do the likes of Tedi think about a 17,000 figure, even if it remains hypothetical at this stage?

[Bing (2)]

17000? That's not going to be enough is it? Even if they were all full price that would only just about cover player wages and bog all else. Why do you say mostly yoofs?

Because their books are sub £100.

A lot of the 16/17 year olds that started the journey are not willing to coff...........

[Monkey Tennis]

17K would not get the club to Christmas without some further investment, however for the spivs it would be acceptable, I think they will provide loans against assets and will also issue these remaining shares, this would them to limp through to Feb/March. They will either hope we are far enough ahead for another admin event or hope that the fans will start to come round with the prospect of top division football.

Yes, I suppose that's part of the gamble too.

I don't think eventually reaching the top flight will provide all the answers either - indeed it might introduce new question if they're not "competitive".

However, it would bring in more money and at least introduce the theoretical possibility of yet more via Europe.

It would also bring back OF fixtures. Now the prospect of them is maybe a bit double edged for Rangers fans right now, but these games will also shift STs and go a long way to contribute to the marketing of the whole 'back where they belong' idea.

Maybe the board feel that if they can hang in long enough to get up, then they'll be alright. Perhaps they're right.

[Bing (2)]

17K would not get the club to Christmas without some further investment, however for the spivs it would be acceptable, I think they will provide loans against assets and will also issue these remaining shares, this would them to limp through to Feb/March. They will either hope we are far enough ahead for another admin event or hope that the fans will start to come round with the prospect of top division football.

Tedi.

In what form would any investment be made?

Remember this is not the Minty era, it is a Listed Co now.

[Bing (2)]

Wunf, I already stated how it would be raised, the spivs have already spelled out how they would raise extra money.

Yeh, the second share issue.

Tedi I might be even more screwed up than even I think, but I am 100% sure that at the initial one, they said a second one would be needed before the clumpany could get to the top tier .

'But', how does that fund raising help the club?

The club is in debt to the Co....big style. Any funds raised might tick it along to continue the spivvery but that is it.

[somecallmetim]

So who buys the shares? Can't see many Rangers fans feeling the need to line the boards pockets. What do you think Tedi? You don't seem like you would want to be involved in that, might be wrong there. Institutional investors might be dubious too given the costs\losses to date. Will it be a big tug at the heart strings of the fans? Even then will a third share issue be required to get close to Celtic once Rangers are in the prem? And surely nobody will fall for it a third time.

[somecallmetim]

If that's the case then how the hell are you going to get out of the mess?

[Stag Nation]

Only existing shareholders can buy the shares, the spivs made sure of that at the last AGM.

The existing shareholders, as I understand it, fall into three camps:

First the money men - they have seen most of their existing "investment" wiped out, so why would they want to throw away more?

Second, the "spivs" - are they likely to put their own money in?

Finally, a few good "Ranjurs men". In the past, they spectacularly failed to open their wallets to save the "club" - why would it be different this time?

Edited June 7, 2014 by Stag Nation

[NotfromFifehonest]

Not having that much of a clue myself SN, isn't the theory that investors who previously bought-in at full price are compelled to keep going now................when they buy into the 2nd issue at, say, 25p then the average they have paid per share of their portfolio actually reduces.

If/when the clumpany make the top division and become a more viable and valuable entity, then you have the prospect of being able to sell-up at a profit (or exiting without much of a loss at least). The alternative of not ploughing in more is the greater evil if it means you are gonna lose 100% of your original punt should things go completely tits-up.

It is the proverbial money pit where you've gotta keep going to finish off the project. A silly analogy might be a (big) house renovation where you've gotta finish it off despite mounting costs in order to have some sort of finished asset at the end.

Edited June 7, 2014 by NotfromFifehonest

[NotfromFifehonest]

The only people who will put money in is the spivs, they have already shown over and over an appetite to increase their stranglehold.

Stranglehold over what Tedi? The big money has already left the building and is a pile of bricks in Normandy/chez McSalary, etc.

The assets are safely secured with the company but I can't see an enourmous worth in them. They're still gonna have to be rented-out to The Rangers or The The Rangers MkIII or whatever the footballing divion of the business is called. As is plain, that division is a lemon which seems only capable of competing in sporting terms by consistently overspending.

[NotfromFifehonest]

This type of line has been spun before, yet still Laxey and the Easdales bought more shares, they did not make sure that clause enabling them to buy more was put in place at the last AGM for nothing and it was not by accident that it was mentioned yet again with the 120 day review.

What you say there simply seems to reinforce my earlier observation about being compelled to keep going. Going back to the house renovation analogy, you can't just stop half way through before the project is something that can be sold-on.

[NotfromFifehonest]

My only question is why Laxey etc don't just be done with it by selling the footballing division to Dave King or some fan group for £1?????

Just keep hold of the assets in lieu of the massive sums owed by the International to the parent company and then rent them back to DK's Rangers or whoever. Let them suk-up the massive ongoing losses that division is gonna incur to keep their beloved 'Rangers' name alive.

[dave.j]

The original spivs played a blinder with this club/company thing.

They knew how much the history meant to the fans, so it was an easy sell, since then the gullible orcs have been telling everyone that will listen, totally unaware that the very lie they were repeating, was driving another nail into an already buried coffin.

[~~~]

[AberdeenBud]

Double glazing prices rocket in Dundee.

Edited June 8, 2014 by AberdeenBud

[Bing (2)]

“You’ve only got two years of history.”

Dundee United have pushed relations with Rangers to breaking point. They have declared: “You’ve only got two years of history.”

Tannadice chairman Stephen Thompson delivered the incendiary put-down to Light Blues Chief Executive Graham Wallace in negotiations over youngster Charlie Telfer.

Rangers wanted £175,000 to £200,000 in compensation for the development of the player from the age 12 to 18.

But United countered with £50,000, arguing only the time since the 2012 liquidation of the Ibrox club is relevant.

That’s infuriated the Govan outfit, who squashed talks to await the verdict of an independent panel early next season.

It is the latest in a series of conflicts between the clubs, stretching back to United’s involvement in the decision not to allow Rangers to play in the SPL in 2012-13.

In deciding to reject an offer from Rangers in order to switch to Dundee United as a free agent this summer, the Scotland Under-19 cap raised more than a few eyebrows.

Seen as one of the brightest products of the Murray Park youth system, he was tipped as a future Ibrox first team star. Yet if the failure to hold onto the midfielder irked some Rangers fans, it should be nothing to the reaction to news of United’s inflammatory stance in subsequent compensation talks.

Under Scottish regulations, clubs who lose a player under the age of 23 through freedom of contract are entitled to payment for his development and training.

The scheme protects those who invest heavily in youth development, only to see their best prospects snapped up by bigger clubs.

In exploratory talks about Telfer, Rangers — using the ready reckoner for such cases — asked for a payment of between £175,000 and £200,000 for bringing Telfer through from the age of 12. Tangerines chairman Stephen Thompson, though, offered just £50,000.

He dismissed all but the last two years as irrelevant — because in his eyes Rangers only came into existence in 2012.

That stance has infuriated the club and will provoke a similar reaction from the Light Blues support.

The liquidation of two years ago is not disputed. But, they assert, the purchase of business and assets by the new company covered Rangers’ illustrious history, including the world record 54 titles and seven domestic Trebles.

Now, with no agreement reached, the validity of United’s argument — centring on the successful departures of stars such as Steven Davis, Steven Naismith, and Steven Whittaker in 2012 for nothing — is set to be decided by an independent panel. Likely to include a law lord, it should take place early in the new season.

The news will do nothing for already strained relations between the two clubs.

Many Light Blues fans blamed Thompson for the fact the newco was not allowed to join the SPL two years ago. He was involved in the move to open up the vote to all clubs, the catalyst for the so called “Arab Spring” of fan opposition.

With many Rangers fans already annoyed at the Tangerines’ failure to honour tickets for an abandoned league fixture four years ago, the Scottish Cup tie between the pair at Tannadice was subject to a fan boycott.

Since then, there has been the rancour over this season’s Scottish Cup semi-final.