nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Genuine question. If Celtic did what your club did, in the exact same way, would you be so accepting of it? It might be legal, but is it ethical? id probably have a few digs while not being that bothered by it, it didnt bother me when dundee, motherwell and all the other british clubs who went through admmin etc dropped a lot of their debt and it happens all the time in the wider business world, honest question did it bother you when motherwell etc dropped a lot of their debt? did you find that unethical? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 we dont have any external debt + our current debt to rangers international is 18 million we are clearly eligble based on that and thats before you take off money for youth development etc so what about all the debt you owe the queen? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 For someone who isn't following the story and genuinely doesn't know, our faux Morton friend does seem to know the script pretty well. and yet they still wonder why we hold them in such contempt? enjoy supporting your faux rangers, we will always know the truth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 so what about all the debt you owe the queen? I dont owe the queen anything and could care less about her or her inbred progeny - a tired stereotype you are coming out with there, the current company also owes nothing to the queen, back to the question you ducked. honest question did it bother you when motherwell etc dropped a lot of their debt? did you find that unethical? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 id probably have a few digs while not being that bothered by it, it didnt bother me when dundee, motherwell and all the other british clubs who went through admmin etc dropped a lot of their debt and it happens all the time in the wider business world, honest question did it bother you when motherwell etc dropped a lot of their debt? did you find that unethical? my honest answer is no why? because they at least tried to pay off their debts, albeit at a reduced rate. Admin can happen to anyone at anytime and for a number of reasons. It happened to my own club, due to an idiot chairman who tried his best to do a CW on us. But our fans rallied and saved our club. We regret not being able to pay all of our creditors fully, but we did what we could under the circumstances. What your club did under CW was suicidal, blatantly manufactured to achieve the outcome desired, lining the pockets of those involved, whilst knowing fine well the legal way around it was to start a new company and transfer the assets, which they eventually did. Utterly contemptible unethical behaviour I am sure you will agree. Proving it in a court of law might be another matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I dont owe the queen anything and could care less about her or her inbred progeny - a tired stereotype you are coming out with there, the current company also owes nothing to the queen, back to the question you ducked. honest question did it bother you when motherwell etc dropped a lot of their debt? did you find that unethical? i didn't "duck" any question. if you gave me a minute to reply you'd see I already have 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 and yet they still wonder why we hold them in such contempt? enjoy supporting your faux rangers, we will always know the truth yep, rangers survived according to all the credible evidence , only a handfull of clueless loonballs on the internet believe otherwise without any proof - thats the truth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) I dont owe the queen anything and could care less about her or her inbred progeny - a tired stereotype you are coming out with there, the current company also owes nothing to the queen, back to the question you ducked. honest question did it bother you when motherwell etc dropped a lot of their debt? did you find that unethical? fair enough, you personally don't hold the queen in high regard, but a lot of your fellow bears surely do Look, if Rangers was really just another everyday company (if that is how you want us to view you) that ran up a £20M HMRC bill, went bust, and yet started trading again a few weeks later, as the same company with the same name, yet all of a sudden were absolved of their debts, I wouldn't be happy about it either. This is nothing personal about my dislike for your football team, this is just basic morality. Edited March 23, 2016 by xj2011 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 my honest answer is no why? because they at least tried to pay off their debts, albeit at a reduced rate. Admin can happen to anyone at anytime and for a number of reasons. It happened to my own club, due to an idiot chairman who tried his best to do a CW on us. But our fans rallied and saved our club. We regret not being able to pay all of our creditors fully, but we did what we could under the circumstances. What your club did under CW was suicidal, blatantly manufactured to achieve the outcome desired, lining the pockets of those involved, whilst knowing fine well the legal way around it was to start a new company and transfer the assets, which they eventually did. Utterly contemptible unethical behaviour I am sure you will agree. Proving it in a court of law might be another matter. the oldco also tried to pay their debts at a reduced rate but the cva was knocked back, the ceditors will get roughly the same amount back from the liquidated oldco as the creditors of motherwell , dundee etc got, we did what we could in the circumstances as well, despite hmrc attempting to chase us us for a massive retrospective payment on a tax scheme that was perfectly legal at the time i dont hold rangers responsable for craig whyte being a crook , thats solely down to him and hopefully he will be punished for it in the upcoming criminal case along with the other crooks involved i it, thankfully none of those arseholes are involved anymore and the club is in the hands of people who have its best interests at heart 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 the oldco also tried to pay their debts at a reduced rate but the cva was knocked back, the ceditors will get roughly the same amount back from the liquidated oldco as the creditors of motherwell , dundee etc got, we did what we could in the circumstances as well, despite hmrc attempting to chase us us for a massive retrospective payment on a tax scheme that was perfectly legal at the time i dont hold rangers responsable for craig whyte being a crook , thats solely down to him and hopefully he will be punished for it in the upcoming criminal case along with the other crooks involved i it, thankfully none of those arseholes are involved anymore and the club is in the hands of people who have its best interests at heart fair enough, if that is what you want to believe, but I am sure the blatant non payment of tax under CW just pushed the HMRC over the edge. Was almost daring them to pull the plug, which the eventually did. DM surely knew about CW before he sold the club for a quid, and the whole thing stinks of a set up And I wouldn't be too sure about your current people who have the club's best interests at heart either, as why on earth would any of them got involved with Mike Ashley in the first place? Certainly they are better than CW etc, but I would keep an eye on them if I were you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 fair enough, you personally don't hold the queen in high regard, but a lot of your fellow bears surely do Look, if Rangers was really just another everyday company (if that is how you want us to view you) that ran up a £20M HMRC bill, went bust, and yet started trading again a few weeks later, as the same company with the same name, yet all of a sudden were absolved of their debts, I wouldn't be happy about it either. This is nothing personal about my dislike for your football team, this is just basic morality. I don't hold Rangers responsible for the actions of why're , green etc, I hope the pair of them go to jail for a very long time , it's not Rangers fault though, those fuds stole from us too., as for your other point, people and companies avoiding debts through bankruptcy/ admin/ liquidation etc happens hundreds of thousands of times every year in the uk, it's the way things are, I see no difference between Rangers Dundee hearts, Motherwell etc all avoided debts, your only raging about it because it's Rangers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 the oldco also tried to pay their debts at a reduced rate but the cva was knocked back, the ceditors will get roughly the same amount back from the liquidated oldco as the creditors of motherwell , dundee etc got, we did what we could in the circumstances as well, despite hmrc attempting to chase us us for a massive retrospective payment on a tax scheme that was perfectly legal at the time i dont hold rangers responsable for craig whyte being a crook , thats solely down to him and hopefully he will be punished for it in the upcoming criminal case along with the other crooks involved i it, thankfully none of those arseholes are involved anymore and the club is in the hands of people who have its best interests at heart Are you sure about this? I am sure that it has been stated on here by Rangers fans that all the small creditors had been paid in full. Do you dispute this alleged fact? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 fair enough, if that is what you want to believe, but I am sure the blatant non payment of tax under CW just pushed the HMRC over the edge. Was almost daring them to pull the plug, which the eventually did. DM surely knew about CW before he sold the club for a quid, and the whole thing stinks of a set up And I wouldn't be too sure about your current people who have the club's best interests at heart either, as why on earth would any of them got involved with Mike Ashley in the first place? Certainly they are better than CW etc, but I would keep an eye on them if I were you. The current people had nothing to do with Mike Ashley's involvement in the club, none of them were there when he got his claws in As for the white buying the club for a quid stuff, the only reason it was on sale for a quid was the massive imaginary tax bill hanging over it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Are you sure about this? I am sure that it has been stated on here by Rangers fans that all the small creditors had been paid in full. Do you dispute this alleged fact? I am talking about the percentage of money available from the liquidation/ cva process, which will be roughly the same. Nice attempt to twist it round to something else though As for the small creditors, I know some of them have been paid by individual fans, some by the Rangers fighting fund etc, football debts have been paid by the current company - all of which are unconnected to the percentage of money available via liquidation/ cva 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I don't hold Rangers responsible for the actions of why're , green etc, I hope the pair of them go to jail for a very long time , it's not Rangers fault though, those fuds stole from us too., as for your other point, people and companies avoiding debts through bankruptcy/ admin/ liquidation etc happens hundreds of thousands of times every year in the uk, it's the way things are, I see no difference between Rangers Dundee hearts, Motherwell etc all avoided debts, your only raging about it because it's Rangers that is simply not true, I would be raging if it was Celtic or any other team also The level of debt CW racked up in his short time in charge was more than any other non OF club in Scotland could ever dream of though, and seemed like wilful suicide. I'm also disgusted that other commercial companies do it too, but I just don't get to hear about them doing it. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it is right either. I hate how big companies in London avoid tax etc. because at the end of the day if they are not paying tax, then it means you and I are covering their deficit. I'm glad you agree their actions were contemptible though, but don't you realise that you are now reaping the benefits from their doomed regime? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The current people had nothing to do with Mike Ashley's involvement in the club, none of them were there when he got his claws in As for the white buying the club for a quid stuff, the only reason it was on sale for a quid was the massive imaginary tax bill hanging over it fair enough, and thanks for the comparatively adult discussion (fellow bears take note) As for me, I'm off to my scratcher to dream of a fairer world 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 that is simply not true, I would be raging if it was Celtic or any other team also The level of debt CW racked up in his short time in charge was more than any other non OF club in Scotland could ever dream of though, and seemed like wilful suicide. I'm also disgusted that other commercial companies do it too, but I just don't get to hear about them doing it. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it is right either. I hate how big companies in London avoid tax etc. because at the end of the day if they are not paying tax, then it means you and I are covering their deficit. I'm glad you agree their actions were contemptible though, but don't you realise that you are now reaping the benefits from their doomed regime? . reaping the beenfits , white stole millions of pounds from the club, the previous boards have ran up 18 million in debt and destroyed the scouting network, infrastructure etc, we also lost about 30 million pounds worth of players due to the liquidation of oldco and tupe and we are tied into a crap merchandise deal for six and a half more years depriving us of about 15 million quid, which goes straight into fat mikes pocket , what wonderful benefits 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 . reaping the beenfits , white stole millions of pounds from the club, the previous boards have ran up 18 million in debt and destroyed the scouting network, infrastructure etc, we also lost about 30 million pounds worth of players due to the liquidation of oldco and tupe and we are tied into a crap merchandise deal for six and a half more years depriving us of about 15 million quid, which goes straight into fat mikes pocket , what wonderful benefits Reported for contempt of court. Whyte is innocent until proven guilty ;p Seriously though you might want to edit that post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I dont owe the queen anything and could care less about her or her inbred progeny - a tired stereotype you are coming out with there, the current company also owes nothing to the queen, back to the question you ducked. honest question did it bother you when motherwell etc dropped a lot of their debt? did you find that unethical? Point of order. Motherwell et al. Did not just ' drop' a lot of their debt. Their creditors agreed to not having to be repaid the full amount. Something DeadRangers didn't achieve. Hopefully this will help your understanding going forward. Yours aDONis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 . white stole millions of pounds from the club We'll he was invited.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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