Breaking Bad

[T_S_A_R]

I would have liked to have seen Walter been confronted a little more with the misery his meth caused in the programme. It strikes me as a major strand of plot that was never really developed. I also would have liked to have seen a little more of a thought provoking ending rather than the popcorn denouement that we got, like people have mentioned. I think there needed to be some kind of acknowledgment that actually, its not all instantly ok because Jesse is free and Walter killed some Nazis. The likes of Brock, Lydia's daughter, Marie etc are still out there living broken lives, because of Walter, essentially.

Doesn't take too much away from the greatness of the show, but I think calling it the greatest ever is overstating things.

aye, i think i've said that before.

two of the best things they did were episode were the methheads kidnapped jesse and you saw their son growing up in unbelievable squalor and the montage with the hooker turning tricks and buying meth over and over.

[T_S_A_R]

capture

not a great pic but does anyone else think that is byran cranston below the dog?

Edited October 2, 2013 by T_S_A_R

[T_S_A_R]

the nazi says "there's no replacement for displacement"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_%28psychology%29

A term originating with Sigmund Freud,^[2] displacement operates in the mind unconsciously, its transference of emotions, ideas, or wishes being most often used to allay anxiety in the face of aggressive or sexual impulses.

[Loki]

You do realise that most of Freud's work is largely discredited in the world of Psychology? He was a dirty sex obsessed creeper.

Anyway I am not sure why you are arguing still, you can choose to interpret the ending in any manner you want. It is art after all. There isn't a definitive answer. It looks a bit like Bryan Cranston, but certainly the picture is too small to say for certain.

I felt the end episode wasn't as good as many of the episodes that preceded it, but I still found it enjoyable. I don't think the end episode has diminished Breaking Bad's legacy in any way. It was a gripping fictional story that entertained through out. I would state that Breaking Bad is the best television show that I have watched (better than Sopranos, 24, Dexter, Lost, Prison Break), but certainly couldn't say it was the greatest ever without watching each TV show produced.

I thought the characterisation of Walt was well done throughout, and through Brian Cranston's acting he was believable as both the meek Walt and the formidable Heisenberg. I think the ending was a satisfying ending. I do agree with TSAR about Walt taking one in the gut, you certainly would realise it had happened, but it has been repeated throughout cinema and TV that you kind of accept it.

[The OP]

Anyway I am not sure why you are arguing still, you can choose to interpret the ending in any manner you want. It is art after all. There isn't a definitive answer. It looks a bit like Bryan Cranston, but certainly the picture is too small to say for certain.

You can't really. People make this mistake in English classes all over the country. You can interpret it in any way as long as you can back it up. His 'evidence' is pretty ridiculous.

His frame by frame analysis of the episode is weird as well.

Although Walt was obviously a ghost. This explains why he could walk into cafes in Albequerque without being noticed, and why he was impervious to bullets. Really at the end he just came to peace with his place in the spiritual world and the 'bullet wound' was symbolic of that - makes more sense than that he was dreaming about lying unconscious/dead with the police sweeping in.

Edited October 3, 2013 by The OP

[banana]

I'd recommend you watch The Sopranos, The Wire and arguably Game of Thrones as you clearly haven't done so yet.

The Sopranos and The Wire both lost their way in phases throughout their runs. Breaking Bad never did.

Anyway, about 2 minutes after the last episode my eyes were welling up. Brilliant finale, though lots of that is due to the exceptional episodes leading up. Jesse's revenge on Todd was hard to watch, both for the extent of the damage that they'd caused Jesse and the act in killing Todd. Walt's visit to Skylar and watching Flynn from a distance was also hard to watch. The brilliant reflection of Skylar in the microwave (go back and watch it if you didn't notice) was unintentional, according to the producers.

Special shoutout to the cinematography of the whole series. Some of the desert scenes in particular were gorgeously shot. This one in particular, when seen from the start of the scene (missing from the vid) http://youtu.be/J9cwsKHjTEk?t=21s. Scene epicness continues here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RumCT1ylugc, though obviously looked miles better in HD.

Edited October 3, 2013 by banana

[Rugster]

Life must be a real barrel of laughs in TSAR's house. Every programme or film watched analysed to the nth degree for plotholes or continuity errors. His head must have near exploded after watching Superman, Jaws, etc. Christ man, lighten up.

Breaking Bad was absolutely immense. Superb finale.

[T_S_A_R]

You can't really. People make this mistake in English classes all over the country. You can interpret it in any way as long as you can back it up. His 'evidence' is pretty ridiculous.

His frame by frame analysis of the episode is weird as well.

Although Walt was obviously a ghost. This explains why he could walk into cafes in Albequerque without being noticed, and why he was impervious to bullets. Really at the end he just came to peace with his place in the spiritual world and the 'bullet wound' was symbolic of that - makes more sense than that he was dreaming about lying unconscious/dead with the police sweeping in.

how is it ridiculous to point out that there is serious time leap in the episode to go from blizzard conditions in new hampshire to the beginning of september in new mexico? to me that is the biggest hint that the narrative steps outside reality.

also do you have an ideas on the photograph the schwarz's have with a guy who looks like bryan cranston below a dog?

the theory is that walter's subconcious mind is displacing him from being stuck in the car in new hampshire surrounded by the police to a wish fulfillment fantasy and lone behold later in the episode a character says to him "there's no replacement for displacement". the exact psychological theory that the fantasy ending idea is based on being mentioned by name seems like strong evidence to me.

there a loads of wee details that hint towards walter's story all taking place in his subconscious (including the fact that he actually says "this will make a great story" on the phone). i like the idea that gilligan has created two endings, a realist one for team walt viewers who love magnets, train robberies and remote control machine guns and an alternate abstract one for viewers who were looking for a more moralistic ending to the show.

a lot of the critics who have unreservedly praised this season commented that the finale seemed 'off' and plenty of posters mentioned on here how things went too perfectly for walt and the moral issues with him going out on his own terms without recognising the damage he has caused.

[P.C]

Life must be a real barrel of laughs in TSAR's house. Every programme or film watched analysed to the nth degree for plotholes or continuity errors. His head must have near exploded after watching Superman, Jaws, etc. Christ man, lighten up.

Breaking Bad was absolutely immense. Superb finale.

Id suggest Back to the future triology

[banana]

It's an interesting theory from TSAR, and would've been a cool ending. However, the theory follows the same lines of construction as conspiracy theories and has as many holes as it's supposedly uncovering. My favourite 'plot hole' is that a hyper-stressed guy in freezing temperatures (freezing hands) in the dark in a confined space in one attempt failed to hotwire a car with a screwdriver means that he shouldn't be able to construct his machine gun device in the warm daytime in lots of space in as much time as he times. A very smart, sciencey guy.

The theory is wrong because Walt did not know Jesse was alive. More than this, he expected that he was dead. Even more than this, the reality that Jesse was living up until the last episode was the exact same reality that Jesse had in the final episode, the one supposedly in Walt's fantasy. If you want to believe the 'Walt fantasy conspiracy' then you have to accept Jesse's actual reality magically transplanting itself with 100% accuracy into Walt's fantasy. Yeah, me neither.

Edited October 3, 2013 by banana

[bob_mcshug]

This all reminds me of the indoctrination theory following the conclusion of Mass Effect 3...

[Yoss]

The theory is wrong because Walt did not know Jesse was alive. More than this, he expected that he was dead. Even more than this, the reality that Jesse was living up until the last episode was the exact same reality that Jesse had in the final episode, the one supposedly in Walt's fantasy. If you want to believe the 'Walt fantasy conspiracy' then you have to accept Jesse's actual reality magically transplanting itself with 100% accuracy into Walt's fantasy. Yeah, me neither.

Despite having made this point myself yesterday, it should be noted that the continued circulation of the blue meth was mentioned in the Scwartzes interview with Charlie Rose - this was enough for Walt to work out that Jesse was still alive, so there's no reason he couldn't have worked that out in New Hampshire just as easily as he did in the car later on with Badger and Skinny Pete.

He didn't know the circumstances of his being kept alive though, sure. That he was captive might have been guessable, maybe - but I suppose to believe that theory you have to argue that his guessing the detail of it, though unlikely, was no less improbable than the way events unfolded so perfectly for Walt in the episode as taken at face value. So no, I don't believe this theory either (and it's quite clearly not what Gilligan intended us to think) but I don't think it's entirely untenable.

(Another reason I don't really believe it, incidentally, is that if Walt was dreaming himself a 'best case scenario' from New Hampshire, I can't believe he wouldn't have included a reconciliation scene with his son.)

[banana]

Despite having made this point myself yesterday, it should be noted that the continued circulation of the blue meth was mentioned in the Scwartzes interview with Charlie Rose - this was enough for Walt to work out that Jesse was still alive, so there's no reason he couldn't have worked that out in New Hampshire just as easily as he did in the car later on with Badger and Skinny Pete.

He didn't know the circumstances of his being kept alive though, sure. That he was captive might have been guessable, maybe - but I suppose to believe that theory you have to argue that his guessing the detail of it, though unlikely, was no less improbable than the way events unfolded so perfectly for Walt in the episode as taken at face value. So no, I don't believe this theory either (and it's quite clearly not what Gilligan intended us to think) but I don't think it's entirely untenable.

(Another reason I don't really believe it, incidentally, is that if Walt was dreaming himself a 'best case scenario' from New Hampshire, I can't believe he wouldn't have included a reconciliation scene with his son.)

No. No no no no. The theory has gotten into your head and you cant see where it starts and stops, even though you don't believe it outright. There is no reason for the real-life fact of the continuation of the blue meth circulation to enter into Walt's 'fantasy'. None. He doesn't know about it. 'Fantasy Badger' and 'Fantasy Pete' don't know about it. The fact they do know about it multiplies the implausibility of the 'fantasy conspiracy'.

Given this multiplied with the 100% real Jesse falling into the 'fantasy' scenario multiplied with the non-reconciliation with Flynn, among a load of other details, the scenario become outrageously more implausible than the non-fantasy version.

Edited October 3, 2013 by banana

[The OP]

how is it ridiculous to point out that there is serious time leap in the episode to go from blizzard conditions in new hampshire to the beginning of september in new mexico? to me that is the biggest hint that the narrative steps outside reality.

also do you have an ideas on the photograph the schwarz's have with a guy who looks like bryan cranston below a dog?

the theory is that walter's subconcious mind is displacing him from being stuck in the car in new hampshire surrounded by the police to a wish fulfillment fantasy and lone behold later in the episode a character says to him "there's no replacement for displacement". the exact psychological theory that the fantasy ending idea is based on being mentioned by name seems like strong evidence to me.

there a loads of wee details that hint towards walter's story all taking place in his subconscious (including the fact that he actually says "this will make a great story" on the phone). i like the idea that gilligan has created two endings, a realist one for team walt viewers who love magnets, train robberies and remote control machine guns and an alternate abstract one for viewers who were looking for a more moralistic ending to the show.

a lot of the critics who have unreservedly praised this season commented that the finale seemed 'off' and plenty of posters mentioned on here how things went too perfectly for walt and the moral issues with him going out on his own terms without recognising the damage he has caused.

Again, it's 9/11 truther stuff. There's a photograph of a guy who resembles Walt to a minimal degree in the background of some scene, so let's ignore the theory requiring us to believe that Jesse is fantasising within Walt's subconscious from a place Walt does not know he is located - fantasising about something he had only revealed was his ambition in Narcotics Anonymous. Errr whit? Or are they sharing a subconscious or something because Gilligan has watched too much Inception?

Does Walt's subconscious also extend to phone calls between Skyler and Marie when Walt is not present, which allude to stuff that had been shown in flashforwards in previous episodes of this series? Does his wish-fulfillment not extend to reconciliation with his son? Why the f**k does he cough in a dream? Why does the dream continue when he is lying either unconscious or dead, as the police move in? Why does he want Jesse to break free from his control and tell him to shoot himself, when that is Jesse's own character development?

Its a case of people reading far too much into stuff because they were dissatisfied with the finale, or because they wish to believe themselves above the sheeple who haven't come up with a ridiculous, wafer-thin theory involving freeze frames and focusing on inconsequential events or things which have already been explained to them (such as the watch).

Although Walt is obviously an Alien and he transported himself, Badger and the other one into the Schwarz compound in his spaceship. It's the only explanation that fits.

Edit, just to add finally that if you think 'The ending was all a dream' is a good storytelling device I wouldn't look down on people who enjoy 'magnets bitch!' too much.

Edited October 3, 2013 by The OP

[Yoss]

There is no reason for the real-life fact of the continuation of the blue meth circulation to enter into Walt's 'fantasy'. None. He doesn't know about it.

He does know about it. Charlie Rose mentioned it in the interview with the Schwartzes that Walt saw on the pub TV in New Hampshire.

[The OP]

He does know about it. Charlie Rose mentioned it in the interview with the Schwartzes that Walt saw on the pub TV in New Hampshire.

I subcribe to the theory that that was a dream because it's unrealistic that a relevant interview involving people he knew and resented would be on at that exact time. Plus it was quite snowy.

Edited October 3, 2013 by The OP

[banana]

He does know about it. Charlie Rose mentioned it in the interview with the Schwartzes that Walt saw on the pub TV in New Hampshire.

Good point!

Still, doesn't change the gross implausibility of the 'fantasy conspiracy' being the answer to some minor plot holes in the episode.

[Yoss]

Good point!

Still, doesn't change the gross implausibility of the 'fantasy conspiracy' being the answer to some minor plot holes in the episode.

Yeah, I basically agree.

[P.C]

The other end of the spectrum would of been a very clever episode that ended without having shown what happened to Walt or Jessie probably similar to the point Jessie points the gun at him and tells him to do it. Cutting to black a shot fires and the credits roll

Il take the slightly blander than normal BB episode with the full explaination thanks

[banana]

The other end of the spectrum would of been a very clever episode that ended without having shown what happened to Walt or Jessie probably similar to the point Jessie points the gun at him and tells him to do it. Cutting to black a shot fires and the credits roll

That worked well (despite considerable fan backlash) in the Sopranos, but I'm not sure it would have really have fit in Breaking Bad. Besides, it's too close to the end of season 1 (or was it 2?). I think almost full closure worked really well.