Belfast Council remove Union Flag

[H_B]

As you quite rightly say, no country has a perfect record in its treatment of immigrants, but at least try to be balanced and not cherry-pick the bad bits that just happen to suit your agenda.

I haven't. If you had actually bothered to read any of the threads on this issue. Rather than tone trolling after the fact. There are a lot of lovely stories about Irish Catholic immigration into Scottish society too - funnily enough those seeking to pursue their victimhood agenda don't mention those.

The question is not who is worser than the other. The point is, if you are standing throwing stones at one nation, and decrying the hostorical actions of ancestors, if your view is to be taken at all seriously, and you are not in fact an agenda-driven apologist p***k, like Kevin for example, you have to acknowledge the wider issue, particularly in relation to your own country's behaviour in relation to immigrants.

Much as, in exactly the same way, if you choose to demonise the Unionist community in NI, you shouls have the intellectual decency to acknowledge the same behaviour from the Nationalist community. Of which there is plenty to find.

[welshbairn]

In 1966, the Dublin Jewish community arranged the planting and dedication of the Éamon de Valera Forest in Israel, near Nazareth, in recognition of his consistent support for Ireland's Jews.

Protection payment.

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'd go with that. The only people I know from NI are genuinely nice people who are great company. It's the minority OF-clad fuckwits that let the place down. Actually, that sounds familiar.

Personally, i've never been on Ireland (South or North). But i've met many of the natives and conversed with them in various other parts of the world including in Scotland, and gotten to know a few reasonably well. I can honestly say that i have never spoken to anyone face to face from either North or South of that Island that i didn't get on at least 'fine' with. And i've never talked politics with any of them as i'm not from that Island.

[Half Rice Half Chips]

I haven't. If you had actually bothered to read any of the threads on this issue. Rather than tone trolling after the fact. There are a lot of lovely stories about Irish Catholic immigration into Scottish society too - funnily enough those seeking to pursue their victimhood agenda don't mention those.

The question is not who is worser than the other. The point is, if you are standing throwing stones at one nation, and decrying the hostorical actions of ancestors, if your view is to be taken at all seriously, and you are not in fact an agenda-driven apologist p***k, like Kevin for example, you have to acknowledge the wider issue, particularly in relation to your own country's behaviour in relation to immigrants.

Much as, in exactly the same way, if you choose to demonise the Unionist community in NI, you shouls have the intellectual decency to acknowledge the same behaviour from the Nationalist community. Of which there is plenty to find.

Are you referring to me or Caomhin/Kevin or both here? Personally I can't recall commenting on this site about the Irish Catholic experience in Scotland, good or bad. FWIW my folks, both southern Irish Catholics, have had a mostly good experience, sometimes bad but nothing they weren't expecting or nothing they would get hung up about. I cringe when I see Caomhin's MOPEish postings as would my folks if they saw them.

Regarding NI, I believe I'm on record on this thread as calling the SF/SDLP decision to remove the flag as petty political pointscoring, but also calling the loyalist mobs issuing death threats and firebombing police cars as scum of the earth. Same goes for the "real ira" murdering that prison guard recently - scum of the earth.

[SS-18 ICBM]

At ceremonies for the first Holocaust Memorial Day in Ireland, 26 January, 2003, Justice Minister Michael McDowell apologised for an Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted anti-Semitism in Ireland, which discouraged the immigration of thousands of Europe's threatened Jews". He went on to say: "At an official level, the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling towards the Jews."

Why didn't they all just go to England, Canada, USA, Australia, Israel or some other countries? I'm not saying that they should have gone elsewhere, but i would like to know the answer from one of you experts here. Why did they want to immigrate to Ireland? When applying to immigrate anywhere you are asked why you want to immigrate, so this question is relevant. Why Ireland?! I imagine Ireland would not have had much to offer in the way of hospitality to anyone, be they of any people of anywhere on earth, at that time.

[welshbairn]

Why didn't they all just go to England, Canada, USA, Australia, Israel or some other countries? I'm not saying that they should have gone elsewhere, but i would like to know the answer from one of you experts here. Why did they want to immigrate to Ireland? When applying to immigrate anywhere you are asked why you want to immigrate, so this question is relevant. Why Ireland?! I imagine Ireland would not have had much to offer in the way of hospitality to anyone, be they of any people of anywhere on earth, at that time.

It's not like they could pick and choose, like they were going on holiday. They were desperate people. The other places you mention were only accepting restricted numbers. Ireland was unusual in accepting practically none.

[SS-18 ICBM]

It's not like they could pick and choose, like they were going on holiday. They were desperate people. The other places you mention were only accepting restricted numbers. Ireland was unusual in accepting practically none.

Why were other places, much bigger countries than Ireland and in much better economical state than Ireland, only accepting restricted numbers? Any of Canada, USA and Australia, which are each huge countries could have taken each and every Jew on earth, why didn't they?, why was there a restriction on numbers for Canada, USA and Australia?

[Monster]

How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman? None!

lol

How many Sevco fans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Ten.

One to change the lightbulb and nine to claim it's still the same lightbulb.

[welshbairn]

Why were other places, much bigger countries than Ireland and in much better economical state than Ireland, only accepting restricted numbers? Any of Canada, USA and Australia, which are each huge countries could have taken each and every Jew on earth, why didn't they?, why was there a restriction on numbers for Canada, USA and Australia?

There were no saints here. Other countries should have accepted more. The Dominican Republic, a damn sight poorer than Ireland, did. Ireland were just the most callous of a bad bunch. And it wasn't because they were poor, they wanted to stay onside with Germany in case they won the war.

[SS-18 ICBM]

There were no saints here. Other countries should have accepted more. The Dominican Republic, a damn sight poorer than Ireland, did. Ireland were just the most callous of a bad bunch. And it wasn't because they were poor, they wanted to stay onside with Germany in case they won the war.

You haven't answered the question, why did Australia, Canada and USA, and England too for this matter, have a restriction upon the number of Jews permitted to immigrate to each of those countries?

And in reference to the text that i have highlighted, who, precisely and specifically, are you referring to as "they"?

[Half Rice Half Chips]

There were no saints here. Other countries should have accepted more. The Dominican Republic, a damn sight poorer than Ireland, did. Ireland were just the most callous of a bad bunch. And it wasn't because they were poor, they wanted to stay onside with Germany in case they won the war.

Didn't the Dominican Republic accept Jewish immigrants as an attempt by the dictator Trujillo to "whiten up" the population? And can you verify that the Dominican Rep was poorer than the Irish Free State at that time or is that just a lazy assumption?

[lithgierose]

Why didn't they all just go to England, Canada, USA, Australia, Israel or some other countries? I'm not saying that they should have gone elsewhere, but i would like to know the answer from one of you experts here. Why did they want to immigrate to Ireland? When applying to immigrate anywhere you are asked why you want to immigrate, so this question is relevant. Why Ireland?! I imagine Ireland would not have had much to offer in the way of hospitality to anyone, be they of any people of anywhere on earth, at that time.

Emerald Isle

[SS-18 ICBM]

Emerald Isle

It's a town in North Carolina, what is your point caller?

[H_B]

Sorry gents.

The "British were wursur than us cos they only accepted 80 fousand when they cud huv takin 2 millyun, in we took sixty, not ferty like the Buns huv brainwasd youse intae finkin" argument has been made already and summarily ridiculed.

[welshbairn]

You haven't answered the question, why did Australia, Canada and USA, and England too for this matter, have a restriction upon the number of Jews permitted to immigrate to each of those countries?

And in reference to the text that i have highlighted, who, precisely and specifically, are you referring to as "they"?

I've done my best to explain it to you but If you don't understand now you never will.

Didn't the Dominican Republic accept Jewish immigrants as an attempt by the dictator Trujillo to "whiten up" the population? And can you verify that the Dominican Rep was poorer than the Irish Free State at that time or is that just a lazy assumption?

Maybe. Everyone's motives were suspect at the time. And yes, just a lazy assumption.

[SS-18 ICBM]

Everyone's motives were suspect at the time.

Especially the very wealthy Zionists who funded all sides during both World Wars One and Two.

[H_B]

I'm sure you have a series of You Tube videos just primed to show us....

[deky]

So who's going home to fly the Union Flag and who's going home to fly the Tricolour? Obviously no Saltires are required.

Oh and for Kevin, when I say "home" I mean where they live, as in their house, not "home" in the way you'll no doubt take it.

[Gordon EF]

Why are some Irish, as well as "Irish" people so keen to portray themselves as an oppressed minority? Everyone accepts that Irish immigrants faced racism when they came here. Was it any worse than any immigrants who arrive in a country, by today's standards, that was dirt poor, backwards with the majority of people being pretty ignorant? I doubt it.

Do they get a kick out of feeling like an oppressed minority fighting for their rights? Do they want people to feel sorry for them?

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'm sure you have a series of You Tube videos just primed to show us....

Video's are not required. Anyone can verify it as fact by doing their own research.

You can start by clicking on the link underlined...

THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST

Article by Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann - Australia

It wasn't enough for the Zionist leaders to have aroused the wrath of G-d. They made a point of displaying abysmal contempt for their Jewish brothers and sisters by actively participating in their extermination. Just the idea alone of Zionism, which the rabbis had informed them would cause havoc, was not enough for them. They made an effort to pour fuel on an already burning flame. They had to incite the Angel of Death, Adolf Hitler. They took the liberty of telling the world that they represented World Jewry. Who appointed these individuals as leaders of the Jewish People?? It is no secret that these so-called "leaders" were ignoramuses when it came to Judaism. Atheists and racists too. These are the "statesmen" who organized the irresponsible boycott against Germany in 1933. This boycott hurt Germany like a fly attacking an elephant - but it brought calamity upon the Jews of Europe. At a time when America and England were at peace with the mad-dog Hitler, the Zionist "statesmen" forsook the only plausible method of political amenability; and with their boycott incensed the leader of Germany to a frenzy. Genocide began, but these people, if they can really be classified as members of the human race, sat back.

"No Shame"

President Roosevelt convened the Evian conference July 6-15 1938, to deal with the Jewish refugee problem. The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the Zionists made no effort to influence the United States and the 32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German and Austrian Jews. [source]

On Feb 1, 1940 Henry Montor executive vice-President of the United Jewish Appeal refused to intervene for a shipload of Jewish refugees stranded on the Danube river, stating that "Palestine cannot be flooded with... old people or with undesirables." [source]

It is an historical fact that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that: a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.

The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.

The answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments: a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees. b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war. c) No ransom will be paid This response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.

These treacherous Zionist leaders betrayed their own flesh and blood. Zionism was never an option for Jewish salvation. Quite the opposite, it was a formula for human beings to be used as pawns for the power trip of several desperadoes. A perfidy! A betrayal beyond description!

In 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved. The same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions).

The British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed.

On December 17, 1942 both houses of the British Parliament declared its readiness to find temporary refuge for endangered persons. The British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany. This motion received within two weeks a total of 277 Parliamentary signatures. On Jan. 27, when the next steps were being pursued by over 100 M.P.'s and Lords, a spokesman for the Zionists announced that the Jews would oppose the motion because Palestine was omitted. [source]

On Feb. 16, 1943 Roumania offered 70,000 Jewish refugees of the Trans-Dniestria to leave at the cost of $50 each. This was publicized in the New York papers. Yitzhak Greenbaum, Chairman of the Rescue Committee of the Jewish Agency, addressing the Zionist Executive Council in Tel Aviv Feb. 18 1943 said, "when they asked me, "couldn't you give money out of the United Jewish Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said NO! and I say again, NO!...one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance." On Feb. 24, 1943 Stephen Wise, President of the American Jewish Congress and leader of the American Zionists issued a public refusal to this offer and declared no collection of funds would seem justified. In 1944, the Emergency Committee to Save the Jewish People called upon the American government to establish a War Refugee Board. Stephen Wise testifying before a special committee of Congress objected to this proposal. [source]

During the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weizman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weizman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".

And then, after the bitterest episode in Jewish history, these Zionist "statesmen" lured the broken refugees in the DP camps to remain in hunger and deprivation, and to refuse relocation to any place but Palestine; only for the purpose of building their State.

In 1947 Congressman William Stration sponsored a bill to immediately grant entry to the United States of 400,000 displaced persons. The bill was not passed after it was publicly denounced by the Zionist leadership. [source]

These facts are read with consternation and unbearable shame. How can it be explained that at a time during the last phase of the war, when the Nazis were willing to barter Jews for money, partly because of their desires to establish contact with the Western powers which, they believed, were under Jewish influence, how was it possible one asks that the self-proclaimed "Jewish leaders" did not move heaven and earth to save the last remnant of their brothers?

On Feb. 23, 1956 the Hon. J. W. Pickersgill, Minister for Immigration was asked in the Canadian House of Commons "would he open the doors of Canada to Jewish refugees". He replied "the government has made no progress in that direction because the government of Israel....does not wish us to do so". [source]

In 1972, the Zionist leadership successfully opposed an effort in the United States Congress to allow 20,000-30,000 Russian refugees to enter the United States. Jewish relief organizations, Joint and HIAS, were being pressured to abandon these refugees in Vienna, Rome and other Europiean cities. [source]

The pattern is clear!!! Humanitarian rescue efforts are subverted to narrow Zionist interests.

There were many more shocking crimes committed by these abject degenerates known as "Jewish statesmen", we could list many more example, but for the time being let anyone produce a valid excuse for the above facts.

Zionist responsibility for the Holocaust is threefold.

1. The Holocaust was a punishment for disrespecting The Three Oaths (see Talmud, Tractate Kesubos p. 111a).

2. Zionist leaders openly withheld support, both financially and otherwise, to save their fellow brothers and sisters from a cruel death.

3. The leaders of the Zionist movement cooperated with Hitler and his cohorts on many occasions and in many ways.

Zionists Offer a Military Alliance with Hitler

It would be wishful thinking if it could be stated that the leaders of the Zionist movement sat back and ignored the plight of their dying brothers and sisters. Not only did they publicly refuse to assist in their rescue, but they actively participated with Hitler and the Nazi regime. Early in 1935, a passenger ship bound for Haifa in Palestine left the German port of Bremerhaven. Its stern bore the Hebrew letter for its name, "Tel Aviv", while a swastika banner fluttered from the mast. And although the ship was Zionist owned, its captain was a National Socialist Party (Nazi) member. Many years later a traveler aboard the ship recalled this symbolic combination as a "metaphysical absurdity". Absurd or not, this is but one vignette from a little-known chapter of history: The wide ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler's Third Reich. In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as the main enemy of Zionism.

This remarkable proposal "for the solution of the Jewish question in Europe and the active participation on the NMO [Lehi] in the war on the side of Germany" is worth quoting at some length:

"The NMO which is very familiar with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its officials towards Zionist activities within Germany and the Zionist emigration program takes the view that: 1.Common interests can exist between a European New Order based on the German concept and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as embodied by the NMO. 2.Cooperation is possible between the New Germany and a renewed, folkish-national Jewry. 3.The establishment of the Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by treaty, with the German Reich, would be in the interest of maintaining and strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East.

"On the basis of these considerations, and upon the condition that the German Reich government recognize the national aspirations of the Israel Freedom Movement mentioned above, the NMO in Palestine offers to actively take part in the war on the side of Germany.

"This offer by the NMO could include military, political and informational activity within Palestine and, after certain organizational measures, outside as well. Along with this the "Jewish" men of Europe would be militarily trained and organized in military units under the leadership and command of the NMO. They would take part in combat operations for the purpose of conquering Palestine, should such a front be formed.

"The indirect participation of the Israel Freedom Movement in the New Order of Europe, already in the preparatory stage, combined with a positive-radical solution of the European-Jewish problem on the basis of the national aspirations of the Jewish people mentioned above, would greatly strengthen the moral foundation of the New Order in the eyes of all humanity.

"The cooperation of the Israel Freedom Movement would also be consistent with a recent speech by the German Reich Chancellor, in which Hitler stressed that he would utilize any combination and coalition in order to isolate and defeat England".

(Original document in German Auswertiges Amt Archiv, Bestand 47-59, E224152 and E234155-58. Complete original text published in: David Yisraeli, The Palestinian Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Israel: 1947) pp. 315-317).

On the basis of their similar ideologies about ethnicity and nationhood, National Socialists and Zionists worked together for what each group believed was in its own national interests.

This is just one example of the Zionist movements' collaboration with Hitler for the purpose of possibly receiving jurisdiction over a minute piece of earth, Palestine.

And to top it all up, brainwashing!

How far this unbelievable Zionist conspiracy has captured the Jewish masses, and how impossible it is for any different thought to penetrate their minds, even to the point of mere evaluation, can be seen in the vehemence of the reaction to any reproach. With blinded eyes and closed ears, any voice raised in protest and accusation is immediately suppressed and deafened by the thousandfold cry: "Traitor," "Enemy of the Jewish People."

Source for paragraphs marked "[source]": The Wall Street Journal December 2, 1976