Howlin' Wilf Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) OK, I will make one brief remark without getting into prolonged discussion here. When I attended the meeting in November, the very first question I asked was 'Would DFC own the new stadium?' and the consultant guy answered in the negative. He said it would be leased to the club on a long secure lease with a peppercorn rent (for example £100 a year) It was discussed here I'm pretty certain. The difference with Airdrie Livi and Clyde is that they were saddled with leases at commercial rates. When you consider that Albion Rovers charged DFC £1,000 per match for the hire of Cliftonhill in 2000 then you begin to get an idea of the rents expected from such ventures. The lease at peppercorn rates has one big advantage and one big disadvantage. The advantage is that there would never be a Brabco Mark2 or any other 'predator' when the club do not own the land or stadium. There would be no asset to realise. The disadvantage is that there would be no asset against which to borrow other than the trading figures of DFC. My main worry is that if Brabco don't succeed, then some less benevolent owner might appear on the scene. Enough!! As I say, if it happens it happens..... Edited June 2, 2015 by Howlin' Wilf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 OK, I will make one brief remark without getting into prolonged discussion here. When I attended the meeting in November, the very first question I asked was 'Would DFC own the new stadium?' and the consultant guy answered in the negative. He said it would be leased to the club on a long secure lease with a peppercorn rent (for example £100 a year) It was discussed here I'm pretty certain. The difference with Airdrie Livi and Clyde is that they were saddled with leases at commercial rates. When you consider that Albion Rovers charged DFC £1,000 per match for the hire of Cliftonhill in 2000 then you begin to get an idea of the rents expected from such ventures. The lease at peppercorn rates has one big advantage and one big disadvantage. The advantage is that there would never be a Brabco Mark2 or any other 'predator' when the club do not own the land or stadium. There would be no asset to realise. The disadvantage is that there would be no asset against which to borrow other than the trading figures of DFC. My main worry is that if Brabco don't succeed, then some less benevolent owner might appear on the scene. Enough!! As I say, if it happens it happens..... Why wasn't it mentioned at the public meeting? Ownership of the current ground is DFC's, why would any fan assume that a move to a new ground would result in us surrendering that? Less benevolent owners than the mob who haven't had any interest in us and want us to sell our valuable land and lease the new land back off them (without even telling us that's the plan)? If it happens I'll be doing everything I can to stop it. Absolute madness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 As fans I think we need to develop a mindset that there are parallel universes currently in play; on the one hand we have the football club which is by public admission self-financed with no record of monetary investment by the majority shareholder, and on the other the faintly ludicrous notion that this same shareholder has both the nous and wherewithal to profit both itself and the football club by moving stadium. All this on the back of a claim by Neil Rankine that he is still personally owed £300K arising from the purchase of that majority shareholding in DFC. It is fantastic stuff indeed, and I don’t mean in a good way, and I doubt whether anyone on the DFC Board really expects the scheme to come to fruition. The account in the local press concerns a minor milestone in the process and helps plug a gap in the paper in a slow news week. Once the planners, consultants and survey agencies fees start plopping on the mat it could become interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 OK, I will make one brief remark without getting into prolonged discussion here. When I attended the meeting in November, the very first question I asked was 'Would DFC own the new stadium?' and the consultant guy answered in the negative. He said it would be leased to the club on a long secure lease with a peppercorn rent (for example £100 a year) It was discussed here I'm pretty certain. The difference with Airdrie Livi and Clyde is that they were saddled with leases at commercial rates. When you consider that Albion Rovers charged DFC £1,000 per match for the hire of Cliftonhill in 2000 then you begin to get an idea of the rents expected from such ventures. The lease at peppercorn rates has one big advantage and one big disadvantage. The advantage is that there would never be a Brabco Mark2 or any other 'predator' when the club do not own the land or stadium. There would be no asset to realise. The disadvantage is that there would be no asset against which to borrow other than the trading figures of DFC. My main worry is that if Brabco don't succeed, then some less benevolent owner might appear on the scene. Enough!! As I say, if it happens it happens..... My memory of the event is pretty good, but I don't recall that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sons1872 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I seen Jon routledge is a free agent!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I seen Jon routledge is a free agent!! Would be a good signing but I'd imagine he'll get a full-time deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel wickson Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Has he not been training with Queen of the South latterly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Moon and Hill both released by Raith. Would happily take both. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Loaning the stadium is a new one to me - and I gave Gilbert a pretty good grilling. At no time was being a tenant in the new stadium ever discussed. The discussion on the funding of the ground was that Brabco would build it and we would buy it off them at a price that provided them with an appropriate profit. We would then bank any residual profit from the sale of the current ground. Selling our current ground, providing Brabco with a significant profit and NOT owning an asset at the end of it was never mentioned. Theres absolutely no way fans would have bought into that. If that's the basis of the development then I'd expect some interesting times ahead. As for the development taking a step closer towards local planning consent - the land needs to be re-zoned by the Scottish government before any local permission can be applied for. Then there's the mention of retail opportunities at the new site. Both Gilbert and Roddy were clear - as was Jardine at the Abbotsford evening - that the 6 units that would be available for development would specifically exclude retail use as Dumbarton already had a retail park that was a major barrier to the regeneration of Dumbarton high st. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 My memory of the event is pretty good, but I don't recall that. Should have said the consultation event - not meeting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If we are leasing the new stadium, no matter the cost, it's a massive no from me. All it takes is one guy at the parent company to say "Actually I need a wee bit extra money, gies x amount per game or leave" and that's us completely screwed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If we are leasing the new stadium, no matter the cost, it's a massive no from me. All it takes is one guy at the parent company to say "Actually I need a wee bit extra money, gies x amount per game or leave" and that's us completely screwed. That's not how leases work. The terms and conditions are a contract. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren1872 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Would need to be a solid 70 year lease for it to even be considered remotely worth it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That's not how leases work. The terms and conditions are a contract. So is there any chance at all the stadium owners (Brabco, presumably?) could put up our rent at any point? Or would the terms and conditions limit it to a miniscule amount as mentioned above for eternity? Or could Brabco sell the stadium to someone else who could charge us more. I've got absolutely no understanding of this side of things btw (as is probably clear from the above omnishambles of a question), so it could well be a daft one to ask! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'mon_the_Sons Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If it is this lad, he's not getting a huge endorsement from a Queens poster on the Division Two forum Sounds like he might be being lined up as an Aggie replacement? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a bankie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think we should focus on the positive. Signings tomorrow and another championship season. Let's leave Brabco until it needs to be discussed and currently that seems a long way off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 So is there any chance at all the stadium owners (Brabco, presumably?) could put up our rent at any point? Or would the terms and conditions limit it to a miniscule amount as mentioned above for eternity? Or could Brabco sell the stadium to someone else who could charge us more. I've got absolutely no understanding of this side of things btw (as is probably clear from the above omnishambles of a question), so it could well be a daft one to ask! I did say I wasn't getting involved so this is deffo my last word for now. My situation isn't changed from last year, I really don't know if it'll happen or not and I'm not that bothered. However, a lease is a lease. It is valid even if the property is sold. I would imagine the lease would be a long one, the rent a token amount and the terms and conditions can't be changed without the agreement of both parties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queensparkultra Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 As a queens park fan... I reckon Miller will be a great signing, was my favourite player last year, scored some great goals, set peices/dead ball are nothing short of 1st class and was a leader in my eyes! Has a lot of passion for the game and sometimes it gets him into bother but none the less a great signing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 So is there any chance at all the stadium owners (Brabco, presumably?) could put up our rent at any point? Or would the terms and conditions limit it to a miniscule amount as mentioned above for eternity? Or could Brabco sell the stadium to someone else who could charge us more. I've got absolutely no understanding of this side of things btw (as is probably clear from the above omnishambles of a question), so it could well be a daft one to ask! Will depend entirely upon the terms of the contract as framed when and if the time comes. Absolutely no way for us to guess what could be in the lease in advance and the terms won't be made public if it ever comes to pass anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I did say I wasn't getting involved so this is deffo my last word for now. My situation isn't changed from last year, I really don't know if it'll happen or not and I'm not that bothered. However, a lease is a lease. It is valid even if the property is sold. I would imagine the lease would be a long one, the rent a token amount and the terms and conditions can't be changed without the agreement of both parties. They will hardly agree a set rent for the duration of a 70 year lease (for example). They could agree an amount just now that is similar to about 10 pence in 70 years time. They would 100% have the power to increase (or decrease) the amount we pay if they want to. I can't believe this is even being discussed to be honest. I'd be deeply, deeply concerned if we were in a position where we didn't own our stadium. There are zero positives in paying rent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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