Dee Man Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yup, there is alcohol dealers on every corner at the moment. Great comparison. I forgot that these alcohol dealers are limited to selling safe doses of drink which is why jakeys have to go underground to the black market to get the rest of their carry out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Great comparison. I forgot that these alcohol dealers are limited to selling safe doses of drink which is why jakeys have to go underground to the black market to get the rest of their carry out. It's obvious some people will want more but the vast majority wont. The dealers will be few and far between. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It's obvious some people will want more but the vast majority wont. The dealers will be few and far between. Do you have any figures to back this up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 So you want me to use my tax to subsidise a junkie's habit while achieving nothing. Tell me exactly what your point achieves? The dealer would still be there. Is this scheme all about taking a couple of quid out of dealer's pockets? So, you agree that drug legalisation will be successful in moving addicts into buying safer products and reducing the influence of criminal gangs? Excellent. Great comparison. I forgot that these alcohol dealers are limited to selling safe doses of drink which is why jakeys have to go underground to the black market to get the rest of their carry out. No, you're right, bars frequently serve lethal doses of alcohol to their customers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Do you have any figures to back this up? Common sense, something you seem to lack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I don't often agree with him, but Supras is 100% correct with his arguments on this thread and I don't have much to add to his excellent posts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Common sense, something you seem to lack. Oh, so you don't have any figures, it's just something you made up. I thought so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Oh, so you don't have any figures, it's just something you made up. I thought so. It isn't hard to equate lower demand for a product to a smaller number of sellers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Oh, so you don't have any figures, it's just something you made up. I thought so. Figures for a hypothetical world where drugs are legal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It's obvious some people will want more but the vast majority wont. The dealers will be few and far between. If you can't back this statement up I'll say you are making this shit up as you go along. Don't worry though because you won't be the first on here and you won't be the last. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 So, you agree that drug legalisation will be successful in moving addicts into buying safer products and reducing the influence of criminal gangs? Excellent. No, you're right, bars frequently serve lethal doses of alcohol to their customers. Oh no, Deeman bottling another post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanco Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 there is no chance whatsoever that drug dealers could undercut major pharmaceutical companies - who can make these drugs at a minuscule cost. Where's your price list? How much is each individual drug going to cost in comparison on a like for like basis when things like vat and duty are lumped on by the government? Will you be allowed to cultivate your own cannabis when the government are selling it, or will that be illegal? If it ends up costing more to buy government approved drugs will it have any effect on dealers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Where's your price list? How much is each individual drug going to cost in comparison on a like for like basis when things like vat and duty are lumped on by the government? Will you be allowed to cultivate your own cannabis when the government are selling it, or will that be illegal? If it ends up costing more to buy government approved drugs will it have any effect on dealers? Er, I've already stated that any prices be developed after consultation with experts and producers. A price list? You don't seriously think I have a price list? What on earth would that achieve? With regards to Cannabis, I absolutely do think you should be able to grow it on your own. Certainly for possession. For supply I think that would come in time with appropriate licenses in place. I can't believe this is still a discussion, how on earth could some street level thug produce drugs at lowest cost than a multinational whose entire business is, er, producing drugs? If mags Heaney can make paracetamol and cancer drugs at cheaper cost than Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and GSK she should be having an IPO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanco Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) How can you not know what the rrp will be? You claim that drugs will be cheaper and street dealers will be greatly undercut. How much will it cost to produce, package, distribute and market the drugs and what amount of duty will the government levy on these products? ETA, be very specific Edited February 10, 2014 by blanco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Prolonged use of cannabis absolutely has an effect on people. In that sense, it's kinda like every other substance on earth. Except whilst prolonged use of alcohol causes death, caffeine causes heart problems about the worst you can get from cannabis is mental illness. And that's excessive usage over many years. Excessive consumption of water during one day will kill you. Excessive consumption of paracetamol during one day will kill you. That's why those arguing that cannabis is "eventually harmful after doing a lot of it, over decades" are completely missing the point. Not that I'm "up in arms" about it, anyway. This is a peaceful discussion and should remain as such. Dramatically overhauled? It should be completely abolished, and will go down as one of the most shameful policies in the 20th century. In what cases should imprisoning drug users be acceptable? Be extremely specific. As for the second point, er....what? Because consumers "perpetuate" the drug trade they should be imprisoned What's wrong with wanting to take drugs? It's a basic human desire, really. Do you drink alcohol? Are you perpetuating the alcohol trade? Or is the alcohol trade okay because it is safe and legal? Right? So why don't we make that the case for all drugs...? Your first point is not relevant. Neither is your second, really. Even if we assume you have never drank alcohol, never smoked a cigarette, never taken a drink of coffee. These are your choices. Nobody is disputing your right to make them. So why do you advocate imprisoning those who make different choices to you? Your first paragraph is not, in any sense, an argument against legalisation. It would be similar to the one described here - http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/06/01/heroin_clinic_didnt_hurt_montreal_street_study.html It is clearly different from existing laws, users have a chance to consume their drugs safely, under supervised conditions and with a product they know to be safe. It could scarcely be more different to the current situation. As discussed, there is no chance whatsoever that drug dealers could undercut major pharmaceutical companies - who can make these drugs at a minuscule cost. Yes I drink alcohol, because I like the taste of beer. So yes, of course I'm contributing to the drinks trade. I also make my own. Since you're drawing comparisons, should it be legal to make your own heroin? Let me guess - that's irrelevant. But my point is you can't possibly put alcohol (or cannabis, or caffeine) in the same bracket as heroin or crack. There is clearly an argument for prescribing heroin as there is evidence from other countries that it can work. I'm not convinced with the "legalise all drugs" argument though. If a legal heroin centre can wean junkies off it then it can only be beneficial, but who would go to such a place to take ecstasy, cocaine, crystal meth? Unless the medical staff hand out glowsticks on the way in then I don't think it's the kind of atmosphere the people who want to take these recreational substances are looking for. You've also somehow managed to argue against my points that were actually in agreement with you, impressive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Er, I've already stated that any prices be developed after consultation with experts and producers. A price list? You don't seriously think I have a price list? What on earth would that achieve? Hmmm so you're speculating like tbe rest of us. The prosecution rests its case ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 How can you not know what the rrp will be? You claim that drugs will be cheaper and street dealers will be greatly undercut. How much will it cost to produce, package, distribute and market the drugs and what amount of duty will the government levy on these products? ETA, be very specific Are dealers plucking their drugs out of thin air or something? A multinational company producing literally tons of pills or whatever is going to produce them at a much cheaper price than dealers who have to produce in much smaller doses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodside Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cannabis should be legal, and IMO probably will be in some form within the next 4-5 years. In the USA states are falling like dominos as they realize the financial gains other states are making. All drugs should be legalized, regulated and taxed really, but that wont happen till all the old dafties with their heads stuck in the sand are dead and gone. What is especially sad is every time some kid dies from a dodgy pill all the police and press have to say is 'drugs is bad m'kay', there are harm reduction charities/websites out there and reagent test kits are easily and cheaply available but I have never once heard them being mentioned. It wouldnt cost much to set up a proper test lab and would save lives. Also a wee bit of education wouldnt go amiss, taking 5+ strong pills as a teenager is comparable to tanning a litre of vodka straight. The government have blood on their hands same as the scumbags who put dangerous stuff in pills. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Er, I've already stated that any prices be developed after consultation with experts and producers. A price list? You don't seriously think I have a price list? What on earth would that achieve?Sorry, had to come back for a second pop. Surely the cessation of the 'war on drugs' will pay for it, never mind the cost, even if you don't know what it would be and if all the hard working 9 to 5 working drug users play by the rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanco Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Are dealers plucking their drugs out of thin air or something? A multinational company producing literally tons of pills or whatever is going to produce them at a much cheaper price than dealers who have to produce in much smaller doses. Dealers don't have to worry about massive development and regulation costs, they've hardly got any overheads for packaging or marketing either unless the cost of cellophane and text messages have significantly increased. How much exactly is a multinational going to sell the products for and how much duty and vat is going to be applied to the products? Unless I'm badly mistaken, the average smack head is hardly a connoisseur and is after the biggest bang for their buck so what will the comparative cost be? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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