Orange Walk / Scottish Cricket thread

[Jacksgranda]

Snide but fair

You're probably half right...

[THE KING]

If it's posted by THE KING, I wouldn't be surprised...

HaHc

[Jacksgranda]

HaHc

HaHc indeed...

[MacGafraidh]

The Orange Lodge in Scotland is rife in godforsaken, post industrial shitholes, which pretty much tells you all you need to know. They don't march through Elie or North Berwick, they march through Cumnock, Greengairs, Broxburn and a multitude of other poverty stricken cuntholes. It's a shame, because with the surge in SNP republicanism we really could do with someone representing Unionist Presbyterian's. A load of drunken proles in Rangers tops is not the answer, sadly!

Greenie for that post sir, cap doffed! I used to live in North Lanarkshire and the psyche of the hangers on (not always the members of the LOL) is bizarre and to be not to brazen, knuckle dragging at best!

How are you doing Glen? I've not seen you posting for ages. Have you been on sabbatical or have we just been posting on different threads?

I do take issue with the notion of The OO representing, " Unionist Presbyterian's." (sic). I have three major (and about a dozen) minor reasons why I think this is wrong-headed.

Major reasons:

• The OO doesn't represent British unionism in Scotland.
• The OO does''t represent Presbyterianism.
• There is no coherent Presbyterian view on anything and hasn't been since the Disruption of 1843.

The OO in Scotland has never had the same social or political traction as it has in Ireland. It has always been a marginal ginger group.

I am perfectly content to endorse a joyful and colourful celebration of William's revolution and the triumph of parliament over the crown. The idea, though, that said celebrants, in Scotland, represent anything more than themselves is wrong-headed.

While I am bumping my gums I shall also reference Orangefest. A wrong-headed and regressive idea. Scotland has never had an 'Orange culture' and to try and impose this is making some sort of ghetto mentality that has never existed.

So quick sum: Celebrate William's revolution and you have my full agreement. Turn it in to some sort of racial or cultural cause célèbre and you can GTF.

Its all part of the psuedo Ulster/Scots cringeworthy trying to develop a bond that is not as strong as they woul dhave us believe.

[The OP]

I feel bad for the OO - when Brad Pitt wanted to fill George Square with zombies nobody complained.

[callum-ayr]

It would appear even the good lord himself isn't too happy with the marches in George Square.

What a day it is out there!

[djchapsticks]

Delighted with this weather to be honest. Bowler hats blowing everywhere. Get it up the c***s.

[shiltrum]

Yip, we have 57 Orange Walks within the city. Can you believe this, No need for them to be having this many walks.

1 Should be more than enough.

I notice aswell they have started calling it an "orangefest"

Well they (Heinz) say variety is the spice of life.

[Marshmallo]

I've heard

The Orange Lodge in Scotland is rife in godforsaken, post industrial shitholes, which pretty much tells you all you need to know. They don't march through Elie or North Berwick, they march through Cumnock, Greengairs, Broxburn and a multitude of other poverty stricken cuntholes. It's a shame, because with the surge in SNP republicanism we really could do with someone representing Unionist Presbyterian's. A load of drunken proles in Rangers tops is not the answer, sadly!

Can anyone confirm?

[shiltrum]

Hopefuly it rains like f**k

Just like playing a kettle drum the more the better and non stop .

[~~~]

What a shame

[1320Lichtie]

Those People Make Glasgow signs....

No fork lightning? That's ashame

[LongTimeLurker]

Its all part of the psuedo Ulster/Scots cringeworthy trying to develop a bond that is not as strong as they woul dhave us believe.

The bond is real for the people, who feel it and all identities can be argued to be artificial and constructed in academic terms rather than natural and organic as they seem to the people that are involved. The key to a deeper understanding of these sorts of issues is to be able to move beyond your own programming in identity terms. Think what people don't grasp on the Ulster-Scotland angle is that although immigration from the island of Ireland into Scotland in the 19th century is normally portrayed in the mainstream media as an Irish RC thing running into discrimination due to the nativism of local working class Scottish Presbyterians, about one in three of the migrants were actually from Protestant backgrounds. Stuff like the LOL and ABoD is something that was introduced into Scotland by that. Having research it in my own family the start of an LOL involvement was when two of my grandfather's great-uncles from a Bo'ness mining family married women from immigrant famine era families from Ireland while working as miners in the Harthill area, who both had Irish Gaelic surnames but were Protestant, which runs counter to all the usual stereotypes on this.

It's fucking bizarre, as if they are under some kind of threat from Catholics in shiteholes like Forth, Shotts and Slamannan. Nobody with any sense would set foot in these redneck wildernesses. I'd love to hear from someone on here who lives in one of these places

Always remember being asked back when I was teenager by a woman from Newry (very much of the red, white and blue persuasion despite being from south Armagh) something along the lines of, "Why are there all these lunatics from small mining villages going on about Ulster all the time? They are more extreme about it than most people are back home". She knew I had some Ulster ancestry (outside the 1921 gerrymander rather than in NI) and must have thought I might be able to provide some insight. You can say it's an ancestral thing given a lot of these towns and villages were populated to a significant extent by Ulster Protestants in the second half of the 19th century, but that was 5 or 6 generations ago now. Suspect the answer is that the loyal orders give a lot of people that live in some of the more grim residential areas of the central belt, a sense of purpose and meaning in their lives and a question people like WaffenThinMint should ponder is why there is nothing in mainstream Scottish culture that has been viewed as appealing enough over the last 150 years to take its place. In my experience, people from that sort of background tend to view a lot of the kilts and bagpipes and misty eyed romanticism about Highland landscapes sort of stuff that has been promoted as authentic Scottish culture by the powers that be with complete derision.

• The OO does''t represent Presbyterianism.

This is something people just don't get. BBC coverage of NI often tries to make this Presbyterianism Orangeism link but Dan Winter's cottage was very much in Church of Ireland sort of territory around Portadown rather than in the Ulster Scots sort of areas and during the 1798 rebellion, a very sizable portion of the Ulster Presbyterian population were opposed to the crown rather than aligned with it, because it was an Anglican Ascendancy that was in place in 18th century Ireland not a Protestant one. Only later after the Union of 1801 did Orangeism start to be used as a way to unify the various Protestant denominations in the face of RC-tinged Irish republicanism, but to this day it is still relatively weak in some of the most Presbyterian areas such as North Antrim. The reason it's not a core part of the Scottish cultural landscape is that the whole view of the role of the monarchy within Orangeism is very much an Anglican Church of Ireland one that is at odds with traditional Scottish viewpoints growing out of the legacy of the Covenanters, which very much downplayed and marginalised the religious role of a monarch.

[shiltrum]

^^^Typo

Stop acting the c*** you

[scotfree]

[shiltrum]

They will be wanting to call it Orange Square next.

[cdhafc1874]

Heavy rain + George Sq full of OO twats = mass 1st wash of the year.

[The_Kincardine]

The reason it's not a core part of the Scottish cultural landscape is that the whole view of the role of the monarchy within Orangeism is very much an Anglican Church of Ireland one that is at odds with traditional Scottish viewpoints growing out of the legacy of the Covenanters, which very much downplayed and marginalised the religious role of a monarch.

Lurky, you may know this better than me....but didn't The OO in Ireland originally restrict membership solely to CofI communicants? I have a hefty wager that I'm right and there has been a big sea-change and that it's now seen as a branch of Presbyterianism.

You are right, of course, about the monarchy thing. In Scotland, even before 1688, there was a strong movement to reduce monarchical power and influence. There's a good case to be made that the then Presbyterian view was the anti-establishment one.

[callum-ayr]

Up here in the land of Sneck our former local lodge known to many as the Portland Club went bust a couple of years ago due to unpaid taxes. For a collection of unionists loyal to the crown, they do seem to struggle with the concept that paying your taxes is a duty as a loyal subject and they should be, those that are in work, looking forward every month to giving their contribution to HM Government.

Its pleasing now especially considering the traffic up here clogging up the road system around the city center that we don't have to endure that lot any more expressing their right to march especially around the Catholic Church and schools on the north side of the river.

This seems familiar.

[LongTimeLurker]

Lurky, you may know this better than me....but didn't The OO in Ireland originally restrict membership solely to CofI communicants? I have a hefty wager that I'm right and there has been a big sea-change and that it's now seen as a branch of Presbyterianism.

I think you are right on that, but can't provide any evidence to help you collect, unfortunately. The sea-change in attitudes after the 1801 Union is obvious and non-controversial though. For example, the great-grandfather of Col. Fred Crawford of Clyde Valley fame is known to have been actively involved in the 1798 rebellion on the side of the United Irishmen, who were inspired by the secularism of the French Revolution. Three or four generations later, the problem with Home Rule from a Presbyterian sort of standpoint was even if it wasn't always the overtly stated goal, many of the people involved wanted to take the old Anglican Ascendancy model of rule from Dublin and turn it upside down to create a society dominated by Roman Catholicism as eventually happened in the RoI under Eamon de Valera's Fianna Fail, while in contrast the Union had been what had leveled the playing field between the PCI and CoI and eventually led to the outright disestablishment of the CoI.