Lowland League comparison

[Guest]

Why would the ground need to expand ? Having read a few of your posts on the junior thread can you tell us what your fascination for crowds is Isa ?

As the late Jock Stein said "Football without fans is nothing" except of course in the fifth tier!

[Guest]

still missing my point completely.....i have already said talbot would probably win the LL.

So, oh great exponent of the rice flail, tell me like I'm a five year old? What is this point I seem to be so slow to pick up?

[Franky Frankopolous]

Rose and Talbot were the best and would wipe the floor with most, probably all, LL teams, whether you think the game was dire or not. I was only pointing out that plenty including a neutral sitting next to me didn't share that opinion, it seems only those with a gripe induced by envy described the game as dire, it was neither dire nor brilliant and a case of two good teams nullifying for spells with instances of skill interspersed, the goal being one of them. Anyway, the initial question was about comparison, it seems that only those who support LL teams are allowed to forward an opinion, the original post was designed to attract posters to wax lyrical about the perceived standard of the 5th tier. It has no comparison due to the fabrication a result of the way it was inaugurated is an opinion and a perfectly fair one.

Being the man with the OP it was NOT designed to attract posters to wax lyrical about the perceived standard of the 5th tier. It was a genuine question to see what level you could compare the LL to down south. I couldn't care less whether it's better or worse for not having the Juniors such as the Auchinleck Talbot in it. This season I've seen Talbot at Pollok (decent game spoiled by a Ref sending the Pollok goalie off), Whitehill v Dalbeattie on Saturday (2-0 to 2-4), games at Hawick RA, Leith Athletic, Easthouses, Fauldhouse, Broxburn, Preston Ath, Rosyth, Gala, Craigroyston, Abbey Hey and Balintore (Ross-shire Welfare) and enjoyed most if not all the games. They are in the main "Honest" and what you see is what you get!! I'm also actually enjoying Hearts fight to reduce the -15 deduction as well. Perhaps the best way for Scotland would be a regionalised 5th tier (North, East and West) Mix of Juniors and Seniors.

[Guest]

Being the man with the OP it was NOT designed to attract posters to wax lyrical about the perceived standard of the 5th tier. It was a genuine question to see what level you could compare the LL to down south. I couldn't care less whether it's better or worse for not having the Juniors such as the Auchinleck Talbot in it. This season I've seen Talbot at Pollok (decent game spoiled by a Ref sending the Pollok goalie off), Whitehill v Dalbeattie on Saturday (2-0 to 2-4), games at Hawick RA, Leith Athletic, Easthouses, Fauldhouse, Broxburn, Preston Ath, Rosyth, Gala, Craigroyston, Abbey Hey and Balintore (Ross-shire Welfare) and enjoyed most if not all the games. They are in the main "Honest" and what you see is what you get!! I'm also actually enjoying Hearts fight to reduce the -15 deduction as well. Perhaps the best way for Scotland would be a regionalised 5th tier (North, East and West) Mix of Juniors and Seniors.

Agreed!

[Dipple burn]

Is Alba truly considered Council Telly? And if I recall correctly, Sky didn't show your trip to Tynecastle???

No but we were never off Sky television and the first person to be interviewed after the 4th round draw was our keeper.

[TFW]

........so there!

[HTG]

apologies to linlithgow on that one, i would definitely exclude you guys from that.

Thanks. However, the likes of Talbot and Irvine Meadow at the "elite" end or Blackburn or Haddington further down the line are all progressive. The latter are building a strong community focus and there are other good examples in the Juniors. I think the comparison between a group of 12 drawn largely from their existing or previous league structure with a community of clubs across the country numbering in excess of 160 is a tad unfair.

The LL wasn't built around ambition v non ambition. For the majority who signed up it was a no brainer whilst for the Juniors it was an absolute wrench from a decent geographic structure (made more difficult by intransigent leadership beyond the clubs themselves).

[brucelee]

Thanks. However, the likes of Talbot and Irvine Meadow at the "elite" end or Blackburn or Haddington further down the line are all progressive. The latter are building a strong community focus and there are other good examples in the Juniors. I think the comparison between a group of 12 drawn largely from their existing or previous league structure with a community of clubs across the country numbering in excess of 160 is a tad unfair.

The LL wasn't built around ambition v non ambition. For the majority who signed up it was a no brainer whilst for the Juniors it was an absolute wrench from a decent geographic structure (made more difficult by intransigent leadership beyond the clubs themselves).

I hear what you are saying HTG but i find it difficult to believe that any club that plays in the style of Talbot can possibly be described as progressive. No neutral would ever want to watch them play.

[HTG]

I hear what you are saying HTG but i find it difficult to believe that any club that plays in the style of Talbot can possibly be described as progressive. No neutral would ever want to watch them play.

I think that is harsh. I'd watch them if they were in my part of the world and my own team didn't have a game. The way they played the cup final was built around countering our strengths and allowing theirs to come out. They repeatedly hit an early long ball and then had 4 or 5 guys closing down space to stifle the way we move the ball. Once they had done that they could concentrate on building their own moves. Just because a team thrives on high energy/tempo doesn't mean they are completely non progressive. Talbot have some excellent players with bags of ability for this level. If/when we play them again it will be a different game - might be worse to watch! But that's football - at a higher level, the Italians have been negative for generations but they've won plenty. Ideally you want the best of both but first things first if you need to choose.

[WaffenThinMint]

People can gild the lily all they like - the fact was this year's Junior Cup final was a bloody snorefest & a PR disaster.

We had the two biggest clubs in the final that even those with no interest in any non-league football had heard of - because of this plenty of neutrals deciding to give it a whirl on BBC Alba, & all they got was something more resembling a mid-table last game of the season fixture instead of a cup final.

Those that do little else but slag off the Juniors had all the ammo they needed, & all the whatabourtery & kidology in the world isn't going to change that fact. It's now going to take some Junior side knocking out an SP club/Rangers out of the Scottish Cup before that grade is taken seriously ever again by those potential supporters & investors out there in the bad bad world that it needs so desperately.

[HTG]

People can gild the lily all they like - the fact was this year's Junior Cup final was a bloody snorefest & a PR disaster.

We had the two biggest clubs in the final that even those with no interest in any non-league football had heard of - because of this plenty of neutrals deciding to give it a whirl on BBC Alba, & all they got was something more resembling a mid-table last game of the season fixture instead of a cup final.

Those that do little else but slag off the Juniors had all the ammo they needed, & all the whatabourtery & kidology in the world isn't going to change that fact. It's now going to take some Junior side knocking out an SP club/Rangers out of the Scottish Cup before that grade is taken seriously ever again by those potential supporters & investors out there in the bad bad world that it needs so desperately.

Waffen, I often agree with many of your weec rants back and forward but this one is a lot of nonsense. You're giving far greater impact to a single game than it deserves. We were poor on the day. Partly we didn't turn up and partly Talbot didn't let us. It may be unfortunate that we chose the cup final to have a stinker but that's all it was.

[The Old Northerner]

Waffen, I often agree with many of your weec rants back and forward but this one is a lot of nonsense. You're giving far greater impact to a single game than it deserves. We were poor on the day. Partly we didn't turn up and partly Talbot didn't let us. It may be unfortunate that we chose the cup final to have a stinker but that's all it was.

You can also add that not all Cup Finals at any other grade are classics which bring the punters flocking back. They are one-off occasions on a number of levels

[Guest]

People can gild the lily all they like - the fact was this year's Junior Cup final was a bloody snorefest & a PR disaster.

We had the two biggest clubs in the final that even those with no interest in any non-league football had heard of - because of this plenty of neutrals deciding to give it a whirl on BBC Alba, & all they got was something more resembling a mid-table last game of the season fixture instead of a cup final.

Those that do little else but slag off the Juniors had all the ammo they needed, & all the whatabourtery & kidology in the world isn't going to change that fact. It's now going to take some Junior side knocking out an SP club/Rangers out of the Scottish Cup before that grade is taken seriously ever again by those potential supporters & investors out there in the bad bad world that it needs so desperately.

What a load of unmitigated pish! Apart from the obviously overcritical critique seen through the green eye of the very envious monster, at least the Juniors has a showpiece. Anyway, there have been plenty of finals right up to champions league level that have not lived up to expectations, not unusual with so much at stake. You are quite an embittered chap, are you not?

[WaffenThinMint]

What a load of unmitigated pish! Apart from the obviously overcritical critique seen through the green eye of the very envious monster, at least the Juniors has a showpiece. Anyway, there have been plenty of finals right up to champions league level that have not lived up to expectations, not unusual with so much at stake. You are quite an embittered chap, are you not?[/size]

[/size]

Once again, if everything in the Juniors is so rosy, why are you spending all your time in the Lowland league section & ignoring your own section?

Secondly, are you trying to say all these people in the Junior Final thread - fans of St Mirren, Clyde, Falkirk, etc - that posted how disappointed they are were merely being "envious"?

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/201153-auchinleck-talbot-v-linlithgow-rose/page-17

WTF did the St Mirren fans slating it have to be envious of exactly? They'd won a national cup of their own!

The very fact that weeks later you were still whinging about people daring to suggest that the final was an embarrassment with your usual shitgibbonry about it being down to jealousy & that it was "a very high tempo & skillful game" betrays someone trying to kid themselves that a dreadful match was anything other than that.

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/202784-standard-of-scottish-junior-final/

And before TheOldNortherner drones on about "cup finals are one off occasions" & misses the point as usual, the one off occasion in this instance was exactly that - the only guaranteed TV slot of the year for the Junior game & exposure it otherwise can only dream of, & they served up a stinker. On the basis of that, plenty of casual viewers that day now won't touch the Juniors with a ten foot & will stick to saving their money for watching the English Premiership down the pub.

Sorry if the truth hurts you guys so much, but in the 21st century if you bore everyone to death on the gogglebox for over an hour when your big chance comes, that's it - you will never be accorded a second chance by the punters who have plenty of other entertainments to bide their time with.

[The Old Northerner]

And before TheOldNortherner drones on about "cup finals are one off occasions" & misses the point as usual,

Disagreeing with your point is not 'missing' it. I don't believe that seeing a more open game would be bringing punters back to the Juniors in general or the Talbot & the Rose in particular.

[Cicero]

Disagreeing with your point is not 'missing' it. I don't believe that seeing a more open game would be bringing punters back to the Juniors in general or the Talbot & the Rose in particular.

I watched it as it was a rare opportunity to see the juniors in action. I was seriously expecting a cracker of a game because it involved two of your best clubs. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement,

Would it tempt me through the turnstiles of my local junior club (if I had one)? No. Waffen is correct in saying, it was a PR disaster.

[Guest]

Once again, if everything in the Juniors is so rosy, why are you spending all your time in the Lowland league section & ignoring your own section?

Secondly, are you trying to say all these people in the Junior Final thread - fans of St Mirren, Clyde, Falkirk, etc - that posted how disappointed they are were merely being "envious"?

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/201153-auchinleck-talbot-v-linlithgow-rose/page-17

WTF did the St Mirren fans slating it have to be envious of exactly? They'd won a national cup of their own!

The very fact that weeks later you were still whinging about people daring to suggest that the final was an embarrassment with your usual shitgibbonry about it being down to jealousy & that it was "a very high tempo & skillful game" betrays someone trying to kid themselves that a dreadful match was anything other than that.

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/202784-standard-of-scottish-junior-final/

And before TheOldNortherner drones on about "cup finals are one off occasions" & misses the point as usual, the one off occasion in this instance was exactly that - the only guaranteed TV slot of the year for the Junior game & exposure it otherwise can only dream of, & they served up a stinker. On the basis of that, plenty of casual viewers that day now won't touch the Juniors with a ten foot & will stick to saving their money for watching the English Premiership down the pub.

Sorry if the truth hurts you guys so much, but in the 21st century if you bore everyone to death on the gogglebox for over an hour when your big chance comes, that's it - you will never be accorded a second chance by the punters who have plenty of other entertainments to bide their time with.

Pish!

[Guest]

I have to ask the question regarding the inferred dreadful nature of the Junior Cup Final. All these supposed neutrals who have expressed their impartial and fair opinion of this game, did you actually watch it all? I have to say, if it had been me watching a game that has little or no direct interest to me, and if it had been so bad, dire, dreadful or any other of the extremely negative adjectives used, I just wouldn't have wasted any more of my time on it, would have switched off and taken the whippet for a walk, or washed the car, go for a pint. But you guys stayed with it, right to the bitter end? Why on earth would you do that? Could it have been that some kind of warped kick was taking place, you were getting aroused at the prospect that the game was not living up, shaking with anticipation of reaching for the keyboard excited by the notion that this was some hard evidence that Rose and Talbot were not as good as you thought, based on a subjective interpretation of a game on the telly. I have to say, it was either this and therefore clearly biased as f*ck, or you never actually saw the game as a whole.

Plenty of neutrals have said they enjoyed the game therefore, whilst not claiming it was a classic, I consider the harsh comments to be born through lack of grace and certainly lack of credibility, I simply don't believe you.

I thank you!

[The Old Northerner]

Would it tempt me through the turnstiles of my local junior club (if I had one)? No. Waffen is correct in saying, it was a PR disaster.[/size]

How motivated would you have been if you'd seen a 7-5 thriller though? That's where my doubts lie

And, given this thread has been utterly derailed already, I'd also ask the Talbot and Rose fans who have posted here whether their respective good seasons (a double for one and a 50+ game unbeaten streak for the other) have seen any improvements on the gate this term?

[newcastle broon]

I have to ask the question regarding the inferred dreadful nature of the Junior Cup Final. All these supposed neutrals who have expressed their impartial and fair opinion of this game, did you actually watch it all? I have to say, if it had been me watching a game that has little or no direct interest to me, and if it had been so bad, dire, dreadful or any other of the extremely negative adjectives used, I just wouldn't have wasted any more of my time on it, would have switched off and taken the whippet for a walk, or washed the car, go for a pint. But you guys stayed with it, right to the bitter end? Why on earth would you do that? Could it have been that some kind of warped kick was taking place, you were getting aroused at the prospect that the game was not living up, shaking with anticipation of reaching for the keyboard excited by the notion that this was some hard evidence that Rose and Talbot were not as good as you thought, based on a subjective interpretation of a game on the telly. I have to say, it was either this and therefore clearly biased as f*ck, or you never actually saw the game as a whole.[/size] Plenty of neutrals have said they enjoyed the game therefore, whilst not claiming it was a classic, I consider the harsh comments to be born through lack of grace and certainly lack of credibility, I simply don't believe you.[/size] I thank you! [/size]

well done in turning a lowland league comparison thread with English non leagues to turning it into a junior cup final thread.thats genius that

I'm sure ye had pages and pages of the final on yer own juniors section.

as said before by others what is your fascination with the lowland league ?