Ryan Gauld

[54_and_counting]

16 minutes ago, forameus said:

It stops when the manager in charge at the time deems him good enough.  I just don't buy this whole "we never give them chances" attitude.  A while back he went on record as saying he would give young players a spot in squads to get them experience of being in the group, but admittedly I think that died down a little once the matches that really mattered came in.  If these players were good enough to make a significant difference to our fortunes, it doesn't matter if they're 16, 26 or 36, they'd be in there. 

So, assuming that that's the reason why he isn't picked, is that such a bad thing?  I've always said we should save two or three slots in each squad for players like him, but given he's regularly involved with the U21s, is it really such a travesty that he doesn't get dragged across Europe with no chance of playing?

Also, I wouldn't bracket him in with Scott Brown and Darren Fletcher.  From what I remember of Gauld, he's much more likely to slot in as the one behind the striker.  In that case, he's up against some of our better players.  Is he likely to get in in front of Maloney, Ritchie, Snodgrass or Naismith?  Or even Steven Fletcher or similar forward if they decide to go with a similar system to against Denmark?  I dare say that if Gauld was a striker in the Fletcher mould, or a competent central defender, we might have seen more willingness to get him in. 

think the point is that the current crop have failed since their debuts, not one person in that current squad has been to a finals of a major tournament, its a shocking record for a country with a history such as ours, perhaps it is time to do something a bit more "out there"

one of our most promising young players is still touring with the u21's while the current crop yet again failed to even make the playoffs, if playing for sporting b is now detrimental to his development and he needs first team football to continue his development, i cant see why playing u21's will still help him, plus the fact as ive said the current crop arent exactly setting the world on fire, we are failing, why continue to play with the failures

[The Grass Is Greener.]

So who drops out for Gauld? 

[Miguel Simao]

13 hours ago, forameus said:

My mistake then, I didn't know he had in cup games.  I'd agree he should be in the squad at least, but I completely disagree with the "we can't do any worse" attitude that could well see him getting scapegoated if it inevitably did get worse.

This was fairly impressive tbf, although it was in the Portuguese version of the league cup, which most first team regulars don't seem to play in.

 

[RandomGuy.]

We're not "failing" considering we've moved up i the seedings. Are folk expecting us to chuck players in who've never played at this level before and expect us to start cunting sides like Germany and Poland?

[forameus]

16 hours ago, 53_and_counting said:

think the point is that the current crop have failed since their debuts, not one person in that current squad has been to a finals of a major tournament, its a shocking record for a country with a history such as ours, perhaps it is time to do something a bit more "out there"

one of our most promising young players is still touring with the u21's while the current crop yet again failed to even make the playoffs, if playing for sporting b is now detrimental to his development and he needs first team football to continue his development, i cant see why playing u21's will still help him, plus the fact as ive said the current crop arent exactly setting the world on fire, we are failing, why continue to play with the failures

The current Wales and Northern Ireland crop had "failed" until they ended up qualifying.  Same with many other countries this summer.  And saying we should be there because of "our history" is England levels of stretching.  Queens' Park dominated Scottish football in their history, but that doesn't mean they should still do now.  

I honestly can't believe that so many people seem to think the answer to us not winning enough games is to put out players who are - at this current moment - worse than what we've already lost with.  

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

The current Wales and Northern Ireland crop had "failed" until they ended up qualifying.  Same with many other countries this summer.  And saying we should be there because of "our history" is England levels of stretching.  Queens' Park dominated Scottish football in their history, but that doesn't mean they should still do now.  

I honestly can't believe that so many people seem to think the answer to us not winning enough games is to put out players who are - at this current moment - worse than what we've already lost with.  

And how do you know gauld will be worse, or matter of fact what evidence is there that he is worse? 

[forameus]

Just now, 53_and_counting said:

And how do you know gauld will be worse, or matter of fact what evidence is there that he is worse? 

I don't, but I'd say the chances that he would make things better are far less than he would make either no difference, or make it worse.  What evidence is there that he would make things better?

I'll say it again, putting worse players into the squad doesn't make that squad better.  Gauld may end up better than anything we have, but right now he isn't, as evidenced by the fact that he's an U21 regular, but has been ignored so far.

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, forameus said:

I don't, but I'd say the chances that he would make things better are far less than he would make either no difference, or make it worse.  What evidence is there that he would make things better?

I'll say it again, putting worse players into the squad doesn't make that squad better.  Gauld may end up better than anything we have, but right now he isn't, as evidenced by the fact that he's an U21 regular, but has been ignored so far.

Scotlands best prospect at left back was playing for queens park 4 seasons ago, now people want him as first choice, he was given the chance over others and took it, why cant gauld, 

Brown fletcher, mccarthur, etc, all had their chances, how many more campaigns do we not even make the playoffs before we try something different, 

You talk of new guys maybe making things worse, how much worse can not even making the playoffs be, 

I see your point but i cant agree, by next tournament that will be 20 years since our last finals, how long do we give the current squad

[1320Lichtie]

You give players as long as you can until other players become better than them.

It's simple stuff

[forameus]

Just now, 53_and_counting said:

Scotlands best prospect at left back was playing for queens park 4 seasons ago, now people want him as first choice, he was given the chance over others and took it, why cant gauld, 

Because he was rated as better on a pure ability basis than any of our current options.  That's why he was given the chance.  Gauld hasn't yet because he isn't better than any of the options we currently have in his position.  He may be in future.

Just now, 53_and_counting said:

Brown fletcher, mccarthur, etc, all had their chances, how many more campaigns do we not even make the playoffs before we try something different, 

They had their chances because, again, they were good enough at the time.  It's nothing to do with not wanting to try something different for some abstract reason.

Just now, 53_and_counting said:

You talk of new guys maybe making things worse, how much worse can not even making the playoffs be, 

Are you really asking this?  Our last campaign saw us rise in the seedings, and had we played a few more friendlies (cheers SFA) or beaten Ireland, we would've been in pot 2.  To put it into perspective, we were in pot 4 when the groups were drawn (23rd February 2014).  You want to know how much worse not making the playoffs could be?  Not improving our seeding so that we stayed in pot 4 (or worse) in World Cup Qualifying, and essentially consigned ourselves to a longer barren spell.  

Our World Cup group holds an outside chance of getting into a playoff - would being two pots below that have meant we'd have a better or worse chance?  

I can't actually believe that some people think that it couldn't have been any worse.  

1 minute ago, 53_and_counting said:

I see your point but i cant agree, by next tournament that will be 20 years since our last finals, how long do we give the current squad

Moving away from just wailing generalities, we give each member of the squad as long as they have when they're the best option in their position.  Not the best player, notice, the best option.  For most areas of our team, that'll be one and the same, but there is absolutely no sense in dropping, say, a Premier League regular just because he's been pure shite for Scotland but, only to replace him with someone fresh out the U19s just because he's "different".  If we want different there's plenty of Scottish players at Partick Thistle we could call up as scapegoats.

And I'll say it once again, by your logic every Welsh squad since 1958 has failed.  Northern Ireland have never succeeded.  But then they did.  A little under three years ago, we beat Croatia 2-0 and finished above Wales in our World Cup Qualifying Group, despite being beaten by them twice.  Their only other points in the entire group were a draw against Belgium and a win at home to Macedonia.  And we had Craig fucking Levein in charge.  Now three years later they've just been put out in a semi final, with largely the same squad.  But aye, they should have just thrown away their good players and got worse ones in, right enough.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Moving away from just wailing generalities, we give each member of the squad as long as they have when they're the best option in their position.  Not the best player, notice, the best option.  For most areas of our team, that'll be one and the same, but there is absolutely no sense in dropping, say, a Premier League regular just because he's been pure shite for Scotland but, only to replace him with someone fresh out the U19s just because he's "different".  If we want different there's plenty of Scottish players at Partick Thistle we could call up as scapegoats.

And I'll say it once again, by your logic every Welsh squad since 1958 has failed.  Northern Ireland have never succeeded.  But then they did.  A little under three years ago, we beat Croatia 2-0 and finished above Wales in our World Cup Qualifying Group, despite being beaten by them twice.  Their only other points in the entire group were a draw against Belgium and a win at home to Macedonia.  And we had Craig fucking Levein in charge.  Now three years later they've just been put out in a semi final, with largely the same squad.  But aye, they should have just thrown away their good players and got worse ones in, right enough.

We are tumbling rapidly back down the rankings again though

[1320Lichtie]

We are tumbling rapidly back down the rankings again though

Rapidly back down? Settle.

[54_and_counting]

44 minutes ago, forameus said:

But aye, they should have just thrown away their good players and got worse ones in, right enough.

we arent talking about throwing away everyone and bringing in a whole new batch of kids or non capped players, we are talking about blending in a very good prospect NOW, not waiting another 4 or 6 years till we HAVE to play him, only to see he isnt ready because he has never done it before

talk of better pot seedings etc mean nothing if we dont qualify, what excuses will be used if we dont make it out of this group in the coming qualifying campaign

i know what you are getting at about the current crop being the best option, however eventually that best option wont be the best option, then we'll have to start the same cycle all over again of getting players experienced at this level, the germans done it and it changed their team dramatically, they went from the current best options supposedly to finding the best fringe players that WILL be the best options in a few years and got them blended and gelled in earlier, (im not saying we'll win the world cup or anything, but the theory of it is sound no matter the level of player you have)

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Rapidly back down? Settle.

If there were draws today we would be a pot 4 team 43rd in the world now

29th ranked European team

[The Grass Is Greener.]

Dropping players for worse players isn't going to help us qualify.

Gauld will get a game when he's good enough, the way it should be.

I do think he should be in the squad though, getting used to the set up and maybe bringing him on if we're winning. That would be good experience for him.

[1320Lichtie]

If there were draws today we would be a pot 4 team 43rd in the world now

Aye, and if my auntie had baws shed be my uncle etc etc.

We now have a qualifying campaign to get back up the rankings in time for the Euro 2020 draw.

[forameus]

8 minutes ago, DAVIDB69 said:

If there were draws today we would be a pot 4 team 43rd in the world now

29th ranked European team

But they're not getting made now.  In fact, a draw that uses the World Rankings is over three years away.  One using UEFA coefficients is about eighteen months away.  Since the turn of the year we've had four friendlies, two of which we got the square root of f**k all for, and two that we probably wouldn't have got great marks for.  Countries around us will have played in the Euros.  Looking at FIFA Rankings is pointless at the best of times, but right now it's even more pointless.

4 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Aye, and if my auntie had baws shed be my uncle etc etc.

We now have a qualifying campaign to get back up the rankings in time for the Euro 2020 ones.

 

Unfortunately not.  It'll be the UEFA coefficients used for that draw, and they're a lot less likely to change.  We could have an absolutely blinding campaign but I don't think that would mean we'd shoot up the pots like we would with the World Cup ones.  

Edited July 7, 2016 by forameus

[haggisbeastie]

we arent talking about throwing away everyone and bringing in a whole new batch of kids or non capped players, we are talking about blending in a very good prospect NOW, not waiting another 4 or 6 years till we HAVE to play him, only to see he isnt ready because he has never done it before

talk of better pot seedings etc mean nothing if we dont qualify, what excuses will be used if we dont make it out of this group in the coming qualifying campaign

i know what you are getting at about the current crop being the best option, however eventually that best option wont be the best option, then we'll have to start the same cycle all over again of getting players experienced at this level, the germans done it and it changed their team dramatically, they went from the current best options supposedly to finding the best fringe players that WILL be the best options in a few years and got them blended and gelled in earlier, (im not saying we'll win the world cup or anything, but the theory of it is sound no matter the level of player you have)

This I agree with entirely. Worrying about what kind of pot we are in all the time is like settling for crumbs at the table, while others show more ambition and confidence and get their desserts. Did Iceland worry about their seeding?

I don't accept that we can't put together a good enough team to do a "wales". I just think current team needs laced with some, hungry, younger, talented (i think we have some) players on the way up, rather than keeping with some players who are "favourites" but are never going to be good enough.

[Peppino Impastato]

Watching one of the Walesgames they talked aabout toshack throwing in lots of kids who probably weren't 4eady used those exact words btw and gave them loads of caps loads of game time and experience played as many friendlies as allowed etc.   Now look at them.

 

 

This is what we should do.   It doesn't matter people on here going oh are they good enough all thy have to be is the best we've got.   The be young Scottish players right now will bethe sScotland team in 5 years.  They can either have 30 caps by then or 3.

 

 

I also like their systemfor wee tteams it's perfect.   You gen an extra man in the three key areas entrepreneurshalf centre mid and up front two Iinstead of one, makes a team like Scotland much more solid but gives us a goal threat too.

 

 

I think a back three of say Martin,  Hanleyand kKingsley

 

Paterson and Robertson wing backs

 

 

Tierneyand fletcher holding

 

 

 

Then w have lots to choose from elsewhere,  try and fit gauld in too, nice wee mix of youth and experience etc we should be looking to head down that road and get the likes of Tierney,  Robertson,  Kingsley,  gauld, Paterson,  mcburnie,  watt, maybe the souttars in an couple of years as many caps as possible as quickly as possible. 

 

 

 

It's what we've needed to do since brown, only volts did that and loads of players progressed dramatically. 

 

[The Ginger Prince]

What in the name of Christ does any of that even mean?