loyal-blue Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Okay, I'll post my most recent thoughts on the referendum. The debate has long since moved on from 'could' or 'can' Scotland become an independent nation. I think both sides agree on that fact and there are various quotes to back that up. Sadly some people are a bit preoccupied with that and the fearmongering detracts from the discussion. The question then (and indeed the question that will be asked) is should Scotland become an independent nation? Now, let's be honest. Scotland could become a successful nation. It could become the greatest nation on earth, or it could become a horrendous nation. The fact of the matter is that it will be almost entirely in our own hands. This is why I despair when I hear solid 'no' voters, particularly amongst the young. Do we not trust ourselves to run our own country? We have the potential to break away from brand 'UK' and start again. Instead of all this negativity we can use the political engagement which this debate is encouraging, to work together to create a nation we are proud of. Now, in the short term there might be difficulties, however a yes vote would give us the chance to become a great nation in the future. We could become a nation free from nuclear weapons and we could use our new found voice on the world stage to drive for change internationally. At home we could tackle some of the big issues which affect Scotland in our own way and through our own ingenuity. I could go on... this is just my view on things, but who could say no to that vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal-blue Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 As for abandoning other parts of the UK, that is surely not true. If Westminster lost Scotland then surely they would have to make huge changes to their political system. Of course that would be an issue for those in England to debate and solve. It would also be ridiculous to suggest (I've heard this a lot) that my desire to help those living in poverty in the UK is any greater than my desire to help those living in poverty anywhere else in the world. A vote for independence certainly wouldn't change this, however it would give us a greater opportunity to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Okay, I'll post my most recent thoughts on the referendum. The debate has long since moved on from 'could' or 'can' Scotland become an independent nation. I think both sides agree on that fact and there are various quotes to back that up. Sadly some people are a bit preoccupied with that and the fearmongering detracts from the discussion. The question then (and indeed the question that will be asked) is should Scotland become an independent nation? Now, let's be honest. Scotland could become a successful nation. It could become the greatest nation on earth, or it could become a horrendous nation. The fact of the matter is that it will be almost entirely in our own hands. This is why I despair when I hear solid 'no' voters, particularly amongst the young. Do we not trust ourselves to run our own country? We have the potential to break away from brand 'UK' and start again. Instead of all this negativity we can use the political engagement which this debate is encouraging, to work together to create a nation we are proud of. Now, in the short term there might be difficulties, however a yes vote would give us the chance to become a great nation in the future. We could become a nation free from nuclear weapons and we could use our new found voice on the world stage to drive for change internationally. At home we could tackle some of the big issues which affect Scotland in our own way and through our own ingenuity. I could go on... this is just my view on things, but who could say no to that vision? There undoubtedly will be difficulties. Nothing in life runs smoothly. What pisses me off so much with the No side is that they don't highlight that there will be difficulties as we are in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I reckon there would be an English parliament within 20 years of a yes vote. The political system would be shook up big time. That could be a good thing for the very people that would be affected the most by Scotland leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm often confused by your conjecture, so glad to return the favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I reckon there would be an English parliament within 20 years of a yes vote. The political system would be shook up big time. That could be a good thing for the very people that would be affected the most by Scotland leaving. I can't see there ever being an English Parliament to be honest. A First Minister for England would be far too powerful for a Prime Minister to sanction it. I do agree that a bit of political introspection would be a welcome benefit of Scottish independence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I would argue that an English Parliament otherwise than by the complete break-up of England, Wales and Northern Ireland into its three constituent parts, is actually less likely if Scotland leaves the United Kingdom. The primary obstacle to federalism proper is England's size and dominance relative to the other component parts. That issue becomes more, not less, concentrated, if Scotland is no longer a part of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Lol wut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You're fundamentally missing the point. Why can't you conceive that not everything has to be about what is in Scotland's interests? In much the same way as some No voters are criticised for pursuing their self-interest or the interests of people like them, why shouldn't this logic extend to go beyond Scotland's borders? It's not a question of "what are the people of Manchester doing to help the people of Scotland". It's about "What are this bigger community, this bigger society, doing, collectively, to pursue the common good?" The common good goes beyond Scotland's borders. It goes even beyond the UK's borders. Sometimes "Scotland's interests" come directly into conflict with it, and in those circumstances, some people believe that Scotland's interests should yield to the greater imperative or moral challenge. That may be constrained, at the practical level, by the borders of the UK, but it doesn't mean those same said people are not in favour of wanting to increase the UK's links with everyone else. No. I fundimentaly dont give a toss about the North of England. If the South of England doesnt care about the North of its own country, then why should I? Scotland can only help if its in a position to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Lol wut ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1401822685.363199.jpg As each passing day goes by, they get more and more desperate. It's a sad demise for this particular bunch of jokers. 2014. RIP Labour in Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Lol wut ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1401822685.363199.jpg #toriesinredties Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You can moan all you want, but the chances are in a year's time Ed Miliband will be the prime minister and he will be all out to win back Holyrood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You can moan all you want, but the chances are in a year's time Ed Miliband will be the prime minister and he will be all out to win back Holyrood. Is this an assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Q&A with Alex Salmond at Dundee Uni today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You couldn't make it up “@scottishlabour: "I'm asking you to vote no because I'm asking you to cast a vote for social justice" _ Gordon Brown #LabourNo #IndyRef” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Q&A with Alex Salmond at Dundee Uni today What a guy. My hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I was at the salmond thing tonight. Tbh it was all a bit cosy, more an audience with. I don't think he would have won many folk over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You can moan all you want, but the chances are in a year's time Ed Miliband will be the prime minister and he will be all out to win back Holyrood. Oh can you just not get tae f**k? or at least get a life? I am trying to see what people think about independence and it all becomes about 'you' on every thread I look at. Why is it impossible for you to just have a conversation? Honestly. you are to the independence discussion what Hellbhoy is to The Big Thread but you haven't even his wit, intelligence or smilies. That's me done with the Mr Bairn vanity project. I'm off back tae the BRALT which is where the reasonable folk kick about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Q&A with Alex Salmond at Dundee Uni today Fat Slamond tryna say that Scotland's relative reduction in poverty is because of regressive, middle class subsidy policies like Council Tax freeze???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Whoa, cheap shot. I thought you were on the unionist side? And it's really not my fault that the Nationalists on here are obsessed with the musings of Mr Bairn note: a football forum is about the worst place you could go if you want unbiased opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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