Scottish Independence

[AberdeenBud]

A good and pretty fair article on the Scotland Act from the Herald

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/scotland-act-game-changer-or-simply-pig-in-a-poke.24470335

Decent article, but I think the "pig in a poke" argument is much more persuasive.

[1320Lichtie]

i doubt it has anything to do with there being a referendum or not that these kits were brought out, didnt celtic have a similar tartan kit about 2-3 years ago

I dunno, but just seems strange to see that detail on Rangers kit for the first time a few month before the referendum.

[banterman86]

Decent article, but I think the "pig in a poke" argument is much more persuasive.

I think the icnome tax thing in general is a red herring as I can't see any party deviating from the UK norm, although we won't know until it is put into practice, and thus may never will.

The other tax powers are interesting, especially the abilty to created wholly devolved taxes - wonder if there's appetite for that amongst Scotland's lefties....

[AberdeenBud]

Interest Rates could be going up soon to dampen the London housing market and may have a negative effect on the Scottish recovery.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27902587

[Ad Lib]

Interest Rates could be going up soon to dampen the London housing market and may have a negative effect on the Scottish recovery.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27902587

Not sure how being independent or in the Union changes this if people want a currency union or sterlingisation tbh.

[AberdeenBud]

Not sure how being independent or in the Union changes this if people want a currency union or sterlingisation tbh.

Fair point.

Personally I support the creation of our own currency, but I would be happy to have a Union/sterlingisation in the short term. However I don't think they are long term solutions for an iScotland due to issues such as this.

At least that option will be there in the future of an iScotland.

[Ad Lib]

Fair point.

Personally I support the creation of our own currency, but I would be happy to have a Union/sterlingisation in the short term. However I don't think they are long term solutions for an iScotland due to issues such as this.

At least that option will be there in the future of an iScotland.

With any luck some interest rate rises might curb the Aberdeen and Edinburgh property markets a bit. It's not just London where property prices beget structural inequality.

[H_B]

Half a dozen.

Behave yourself man.

[AberdeenBud]

Localised property rises in Aberdeen/Edinburgh are not really affecting the Scottish economy in the same way that the the London boom is affecting the UK and England though.

And they are certainly not a factor worth risking the greater health of the economy for.

[Ad Lib]

Localised property rises in Aberdeen/Edinburgh are not really affecting the Scottish economy in the same way that the the London boom is affecting the UK and England though.

And they are certainly not a factor worth risking the greater health of the economy for.

I think it is, albeit to a lesser extent.

There is a significant distortion surrounding this economic recovery, in terms of the structural levels of unemployment, where the new jobs are being created, where the external and government investment is going, and in housebuilding where and what houses are being built that you could only not notice happening especially with Aberdeen if you failed to leave a 20 mile perimeter around Union Street.

[strichener]

I think it is, albeit to a lesser extent.

There is a significant distortion surrounding this economic recovery, in terms of the structural levels of unemployment, where the new jobs are being created, where the external and government investment is going, and in housebuilding where and what houses are being built that you could only not notice happening especially with Aberdeen if you failed to leave a 20 mile perimeter around Union Street.

I voted up your previous post but I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you suggesting that disproportionate government investment is happening in the NE Scotland?

[Ad Lib]

I voted up your previous post but I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you suggesting that disproportionate government investment is happening in the NE Scotland?

Relative to need, I would say so, yes. The main issue is disparate levels of private sector investment though. This is obvious when you look at the transformation particularly of places 10-20 miles West of Aberdeen City which have gone from being barely hamlets in the mid 2000s to quite substantial villages and in some cases towns in the space of between 5-10 years. These houses aren't your low cost affordable homes either. Aberdeen has an overspill problem very similar to London's and it is a symptom of governments failing to divert enough resources, private and public, away from the North East and into underdeveloped places elsewhere in Scotland.

I can understand why they do it: Aberdeen is a cash cow that, in general, raises the prosperity of the country as a whole, in much the same way as London does. But the housing effects are distorting and they do affect supply and the jobs market further afield and not always in a good way.

[Burma]

You really are very stupid aren't you?

Yes, the point is that the Scottish Parliament came about to create a bulwark against Westminster policies such as the Poll Tax. It was nothing to do with Scottish Independence, which was a complete non-factor in 1989.

It is you who is very stupid. The Poll Tax was merely the straw that broke the camels back. There was no Poll Tax in 1979 when Scotland voted for devolution, only to be stitched up by Labour on the undemocratic and corrupt referendum arrangements.

[strichener]

Relative to need, I would say so, yes. The main issue is disparate levels of private sector investment though. This is obvious when you look at the transformation particularly of places 10-20 miles West of Aberdeen City which have gone from being barely hamlets in the mid 2000s to quite substantial villages and in some cases towns in the space of between 5-10 years. These houses aren't your low cost affordable homes either. Aberdeen has an overspill problem very similar to London's and it is a symptom of governments failing to divert enough resources, private and public, away from the North East and into underdeveloped places elsewhere in Scotland.

I can understand why they do it: Aberdeen is a cash cow that, in general, raises the prosperity of the country as a whole, in much the same way as London does. But the housing effects are distorting and they do affect supply and the jobs market further afield and not always in a good way.

Have to totally disagree here, the NE of Scotland has thrived and prospered despite the lack of public sector investment.

There is a need for massive infrastructure investment in transport in our region but the money isn't there as we have to open railways to the Borders, spend 1/2 bln on removing a roundabout on the way into Glasgow, god knows how much dualling between largs and Irvine. This type of spending to keep jakeys in work should be spent in the areas that generate the wealth. Keep all these road building programs that are providing jobs for the West Coast scroungers but make them come up to the NE and ply their trade.

When the oil runs out the NE will have nothing to show for it but a lot of very expensive houses that people can't afford (either to purchase or to sell)

The roads around Irvine, Kilwinning etc. are a complete joke. The total population of the area is 50,000 with roads designed for 120,000. In the NE we have a population of circa 40,000 in both Buchan and Banff and Buchan administrative areas with not one centimeter of dual carriageway roads.

ETA: Forgot about the complete vanity project: Replacement Forth Crossing.

[Ad Lib]

Have to totally disagree here, the NE of Scotland has thrived and prospered despite the lack of public sector investment.

There is a need for massive infrastructure investment in transport in our region but the money isn't there as we have to open railways to the Borders, spend 1/2 bln on removing a roundabout on the way into Glasgow, god knows how much dualling between largs and Irvine. This type of spending to keep jakeys in work should be spent in the areas that generate the wealth. Keep all these road building programs that are providing jobs for the West Coast scroungers but make them come up to the NE and ply their trade.

When the oil runs out the NE will have nothing to show for it but a lot of very expensive houses that people can't afford (either to purchase or to sell)

The roads around Irvine, Kilwinning etc. are a complete joke. The total population of the area is 50,000 with roads designed for 120,000. In the NE we have a population of circa 40,000 in both Buchan and Banff and Buchan administrative areas with not one centimeter of dual carriageway roads.

ETA: Forgot about the complete vanity project: Replacement Forth Crossing.

I'm not saying that money hasn't been wasted in other areas, or that somehow some public sector investment isn't necessary in the North East. I'm simply saying that the levels of central government support in the forms of energy production and development subsidies, tax incentives and the like could be scaled back without significantly harming the North East economy. You could, for instance, make an absolute killing out of business rates and council tax on the top value premises in the Aberdeen City and Shire local authority areas and use that revenue to cut the block grant to their councils, spending that money elsewhere, if you wanted to take the heat out of property prices and the concentration of job creation and demand.

I'm not suggesting that you *should* do that, as it could have damaging consequences on growth (the same reason we probably should stop whinging about infrastructure investment going into London and the South East). But it does mean that something like a modest rise in interest rates would take the heat out of the Aberdeen economy in a way that ought not significantly to damage the economic predicament of the Central Belt, Highlands, Fife and Borders.

[H_B]

It is you who is very stupid. The Poll Tax was merely the straw that broke the camels back. There was no Poll Tax in 1979 when Scotland voted for devolution, only to be stitched up by Labour on the undemocratic and corrupt referendum arrangements.

And that has what to do with the 1989 constitutional Convention, created at a point when the SNP had been smashed in the 1987 election and were a complete irrelevance as was the Independence movement?

Also, note "voted for devolution" not "voted for Independence".

And we got deveolution. Delivered by the Labour Party, following cross-party consensus and civic consensus in the 1990s. whilst the SNP sat and seethed on the sidelines, as the rest of Scotland ignored them and went about creating the Scottish Parliament they then jumped on the bandwagon of.

[doulikefish]

Its all about the snp today

[strichener]

I'm not saying that money hasn't been wasted in other areas, or that somehow some public sector investment isn't necessary in the North East. I'm simply saying that the levels of central government support in the forms of energy production and development subsidies, tax incentives and the like could be scaled back without significantly harming the North East economy. You could, for instance, make an absolute killing out of business rates and council tax on the top value premises in the Aberdeen City and Shire local authority areas and use that revenue to cut the block grant to their councils, spending that money elsewhere, if you wanted to take the heat out of property prices and the concentration of job creation and demand.

I'm not suggesting that you *should* do that, as it could have damaging consequences on growth (the same reason we probably should stop whinging about infrastructure investment going into London and the South East). But it does mean that something like a modest rise in interest rates would take the heat out of the Aberdeen economy in a way that ought not significantly to damage the economic predicament of the Central Belt, Highlands, Fife and Borders.

If you look at the block grant settlement, Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City are subsidising other areas of the country through this mechanism already.

[Confidemus]

Its all about the snp today

For Team Naw, that's every day since this thing started.

[Ad Lib]

If you look at the block grant settlement, Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City are subsidising other areas of the country through this mechanism already.

Not enough if economic decentralisation and socio-economic equality are your objectives.