Scottish Independence

[forever_blue]

but most reasonable nationalists dont tend to use that arguement to be fair , the ones who tend to be a bit out there

[Ad Lib]

I never said we were opressed. But our "brothers and sisters" whatever the hell that means have much more influence than Scotland does. Scotland has willingly submitted to Westminster control. We certainly do need to liberste ourselves from such control.

Alex Salmond disagrees with you. He says Scotland does not need to be liberated.

Our "brothers and sisters"? What exactly does this mean?

That we have a political unity and solidarity with the human beings with whom we share control over Westminster. In exactly the same way as you believe that Holyrood should be able to "control" me under the auspices of "the Scottish people" there is nothing conceptually different.

[Ad Lib]

A national political community with 10% of the seats cannot control any such body. Standard British nationalist fail which clears up any lingering 'uncertainty' as to your 'yes voter' facade.

An altogether tragic poster.

I didn't say that "Scotland" controls that body. I said that the people of Scotland, together with our brothers and sisters throughout the UK (that would be the "we" I spoke of), control Westminster as a unity. That is what democracy is, champ. Moreover, the fact that the underlying political relationships at Westminster permit this national political community to withdraw from it should it so desire (see also, uh, the referendum) is evidence that we are not oppressed and not controlled by them.

[Burma]

Alex Salmond disagrees with you. He says Scotland does not need to be liberated.

Thats smashing. Good for him. Not sure what difference that makes to my opinion. Oh wait....none.

That we have a political unity and solidarity with the human beings with whom we share control over Westminster.

Except the Scottish electorate only gets to share a tiny wee bit of it. The majority is controlled by an electorate of a different country. This other country decides who controls the Union from Westminster. Therefore Scotland and the people of Scotland are under Westminster control. A willing servility I grant you, but a servililty nonetheless.

[H_B]

. Not sure what you are asking me?

You have said we "need" to "liberate" ourselves.

I'm asking how that squares with a No vote?

[Tubbs]

Well, the SG say they'll stand by it even if there's a yes vote, so that means a bit more than than Cameron's rather hollow commitment.

Fair enough - which then takes me back to the SG committing up to £500m (apparently on a whim) on potential capital projects (including one which the SG said was unaffordable and on which public money has already been squandered) when ignoring poverty seems to be the main accusation thrown at unionist parties ?

What other options were look at for this money and on how it could best be spent in a potential new Scotland.

For me its either an empty promise with caveats galore or an irresponsible spending commitment from the SG.

[Confidemus]

any nantionalist who debates that we are dictated or oprroessed by westminister is living on cuckoo land and I am sure that those living throughout opressive regimes in the world are saying amongst themselve " could be worse guys we could be scots".

Having only had an influence on what Westminster government won a general election TWICE since World War 2, I would argue that we are dictated to.

And just because another country has it worse than us, does that mean we can't strive to do better?

Alex Salmond disagrees with you. He says Scotland does not need to be liberated.

That we have a political unity and solidarity with the human beings with whom we share control over Westminster. In exactly the same way as you believe that Holyrood should be able to "control" me under the auspices of "the Scottish people" there is nothing conceptually different.

Vote No then, you utter weirdo.

[Burma]

I didn't say that "Scotland" controls that body. I said that the people of Scotland, together with our brothers and sisters throughout the UK (that would be the "we" I spoke of), control Westminster as a unity. That is what democracy is, champ. Moreover, the fact that the underlying political relationships at Westminster permit this national political community to withdraw from it should it so desire (see also, uh, the referendum) is evidence that we are not oppressed and not controlled by them.

This particular democracy quite clearly puts Scotland under Westminster control. Our "brothers and sisters" see us as a whingeing burden and have repeatedly told us so.

[Burma]

any nantionalist who debates that we are dictated or oprroessed by westminister is living on cuckoo land and I am sure that those living throughout opressive regimes in the world are saying amongst themselve " could be worse guys we could be scots".

Clearly no one is saying that. We as a country willingly accept Westminster control. And we as a country can, and in my opinion must, liberate ourselves from such control.

[1320Lichtie]

Having only had an influence on what Westminster government won a general election TWICE since World War 2, I would argue that we are dictated to.

And just because another country has it worse than us, does that mean we can't strive to do better?

Exactly its pathetic.

[Jamaldo]

At least we're not Syria. #bettertogether.

[1320Lichtie]

At least we're not Syria. #bettertogether.

Pisses me off, forever hearing NO voters saying shit like 'define poverty' and 'people in Africa are the real people in poverty not people here.'

Suppose that until there are hundreds of weans walking about schemes in rags and wee potzers due to starvation firing about looking for the nearest stream for drinking water then the NO lost will always just brush it under the carpet.

[forever_blue]

Pisses me off, forever hearing NO voters saying shit like 'define poverty' and 'people in Africa are the real people in poverty not people here.'

Suppose that until there are hundreds of weans walking about schemes in rags and wee potzers due to starvation firing about looking for the nearest stream for drinking water then the NO lost will always just brush it under the carpet.

what is in place should a yes vote take place to tackle poverty in scotland ?

[Burma]

what is in place should a yes vote take place to tackle poverty in scotland ?

What will be in place will be the ability of the Scottish electorate to vote into power a Government with full fiscal ability to "tackle poverty". Not to mention the ability to remove a Government which isnt doing enough and replace it with one which is. An ability that the Scottish electorate does not have under the current Westminster controlled systems.

[doulikefish]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/mp-calls-for-uk-football-team-after-englands-world-cup-failure.1404898214

[Mr Bairn]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/mp-calls-for-uk-football-team-after-englands-world-cup-failure.1404898214

^^^ Comments made during lunch break at the cricket, imo

[Mr Bairn]

He adds it also denies "outstanding British players" a chance to play in the World Cup, a nod to footballers including Welsh duo Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey

He says that "no other nation fields more than one national team"

Jeesus christ. I suppose Goran Pandev should play for Croatia, then? Should Ibrahimovic be forced to play for Brazil? Ridiculous

Erm, what about Denmark? The Faroe Islands certainly aren't an independent nation. American Samoa isn't an independent nation either, but you don't see their top players turning out for the USA.

[forever_blue]

What will be in place will be the ability of the Scottish electorate to vote into power a Government with full fiscal ability to "tackle poverty". Not to mention the ability to remove a Government which isnt doing enough and replace it with one which is. An ability that the Scottish electorate does not have under the current Westminster controlled systems.

i am sorry but it sounds to me like the same old same old just this time the one who will make false promises will be in edinburgh rather than westminister.

now i grew up in an area which is infamous for its history of poverty and violence, although I would consider myself no bad as i was brought up by two working parents, but I have other family , friends and neighbours who were caught in the poverty circle and it is depressing . If the yes voters can show me a way in which an independent scotland are looking into tackling poverty and violent and addictive culture usually associated with this , which hasnt been tried to death before or could stand a good chance of success then I am all ears and willing to listen.

[Burma]

i am sorry but it sounds to me like the same old same old just this time the one who will make false promises will be in edinburgh rather than westminister.

now i grew up in an area which is infamous for its history of poverty and violence, although I would consider myself no bad as i was brought up by two working parents, but I have other family , friends and neighbours who were caught in the poverty circle and it is depressing . If the yes voters can show me a way in which an independent scotland are looking into tackling poverty and violent and addictive culture usually associated with this , which hasnt been tried to death before or could stand a good chance of success then I am all ears and willing to listen.

Ah your right. Best not trying then.

The first step is a living wage which rises in line with inflation. The limited powers that the SG has does not allow them to implement this. Theres one for a kick off.

[renton]

what is in place should a yes vote take place to tackle poverty in scotland ?

A problem that can't be ignored.

The UK government can afford to ignore these places so long as other parts of the economy compensate. They are a much bigger proportion of Scotland than of the UK, and have a much greater visibility for any incumbent administration hence it's an issue that has to be tackled.