thisal Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The SG's economic forecasts have been based on laughably optimistic estimates of oil and gas revenues. It also completely underpins proposed social measures. It's not a nice bonus for a Scottish economy. It's vital to allow us to pay the bills. Without NS incomes an indy Scotland would be facing incredible cuts to balance the books. Uh huh. And as a massive economy, with its own currency and very preferential borrowing terms, the UK can deal with this. I think you'll find there are plenty experts that will say that the Uk can't continue borrowing current ammounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 That's what you do in years where your income doesn't cover spending. Yeah, which will be every year if we wish to spend the way we currently do in Scotland. iScotland is going to start life with 10% appx of the debt currently held by the UK. We already spend more than we bring in. You are claiming the many billions of oil revenues will be a "nice bonus". this is laughable nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think you'll find there are plenty experts that will say that the Uk can't continue borrowing current ammounts. Well, the plan isn't to do so of course. But please tell me how an iScotland, that spends more than it currently earns, and will have no control over its own currency, if we are to believe the SG, will not be at the mercy of oil revenues, given the massive part of the budget they will form. Imagine instead of your salary being 100% as it is just now, your employer says, "we're cutting it by 20% but you will get a bonus on top, which might be more than 20% and might be less" Currently you are struggling to make ends meet every month as it is, as you have a lot of outgoings. What do you do if next year your "bonus" is far less than your old salary minus current salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yeah, which will be every year if we wish to spend the way we currently do in Scotland. After independence we have the option of spending our cash in different ways, who knows, we might even manage to run our country more efficiently, we'll certainly not be paying a share of Trident, London sewers, HS1 etc. iScotland is going to start life with 10% appx of the debt currently held by the UK. We already spend more than we bring in. iScotland will start life with approx 8.5% of the debt currently held by the UK less our share of any assets. You are claiming the many billions of oil revenues will be a "nice bonus". this is laughable nonsense. The portion we've used to subsidised rUK for 4 decades will certainly be a nice bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 H_B wearing out his keyboard to no great effect, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 After independence we have the option of spending our cash in different ways, Right, but we are already spending more than we bring in, including NS oil. So what are we going to stop spending money on post independence, to meet the shortfall? Social security? The NHS? Education? You tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well, the plan isn't to do so of course. But please tell me how an iScotland, that spends more than it currently earns, and will have no control over its own currency, if we are to believe the SG, will not be at the mercy of oil revenues, given the massive part of the budget they will form. Imagine instead of your salary being 100% as it is just now, your employer says, "we're cutting it by 20% but you will get a bonus on top, which might be more than 20% and might be less" Currently you are struggling to make ends meet every month as it is, as you have a lot of outgoings. What do you do if next year your "bonus" is far less than your old salary minus current salary? Imagine your employer told you they were cutting your basic salary by 1% but they were introducing a bonus of 20% of your new salary. Which option would you take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 So much abject failure from H_B on this, I don't even know where to start. Without oil, we're the 3rd richest part of the UK. We punch way above our weight for wave and wind power, and could sell some of this excess on to Europe. The bottom line is, on our own, we will be richer than rUK, and financial decisions that affect Scotland will be made solely in Scotland by Scottish people for Scottish people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Right, but we are already spending more than we bring in, including NS oil. So what are we going to stop spending money on post independence, to meet the shortfall? Social security? The NHS? Education? You tell me. We borrow like we do at the moment under Westminster, what are the borrowing on our behalf at the moment, £8/£9billion a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Right, but we are already spending more than we bring in, including NS oil. Can you show me figures to prove that for the last, say, 5 years, we have spent more than we've brought in? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Imagine your employer told you they were cutting your basic salary by 1% but they were introducing a bonus of 20% of your new salary. Which option would you take? Is this bonus guaranteed? That would inform my decision. If they told me I'd be losing 20% of my salary with a bonus which was volatile and may fluctuate from 10% to 30% I would say No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Right, but we are already spending more than we bring in, including NS oil. So what are we going to stop spending money on post independence, to meet the shortfall? Social security? The NHS? Education? You tell me. 1. The extra we give to Westminster vs what we recieve back as pocket money. 2. Trident 3. HS2, HS3 4. London Crossrail 5. London Sewer upgrade 6. Illegal Wars 7. Aircraft Carriers Are we breaking even yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Is this bonus guaranteed? That would inform my decision. If they told me I'd be losing 20% of my salary with a bonus which was volatile and may fluctuate from 10% to 30% I would say No thanks. No, the bonus is not guaranteed, in 20 or 30 years the bonus might be removed but you'll still be on 99% of your original salary. It will be up to you to increase your salary and/or cut your spending in the intervening 20 or 30 years, it would probably be a good idea if you saved most of your bonus in the good years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 No, the bonus is not guaranteed, in 20 or 30 years the bonus might be removed but you'll still be on 99% of your original salary. Sounds like a good deal. Certainly irrelevant to this situation mind you. Now, back to the whole volatile bonus thing - would you take a 20% wage cut with the understanding that yuo will get a bonus that might be 10% or might be 30% or might be something in between? I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Lets take Ian Woods latest assertion at face value and say there is 20-25 years of North Sea Oil left and we vote No to independence. Are we looking forward to the English referendum on independence in 2040 when the Oil is exhausted and Scotland really has become a subsidy junkie within the UK? Lets take control and responsibility for our own future now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Oil is of greatly less significance to the much larger UK economy than it would be to Scotland. So the London could subsidise all of the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 So the London could subsidise all of the UK? London already does subsidise the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Are we looking forward to the English referendum on independence in 2040 when the Oil is exhausted and Scotland really has become a subsidy junkie within the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sounds like a good deal. Certainly irrelevant to this situation mind you. No, it's your ineptitude with figures that makes it irrelevant to you, the fact you keep mentioning a cut of 20% just shows your ignorance up big style on this issue, you're not rattled right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 London already does subsidise the UK. As does Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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