Johnny Martin Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Far more Scots want to be EU members than want to be ruled by Westminster. We aren't ruled by Westminster. We elect MPs to it, same as the rest of the country. At the end of the day, Scots voted decisively in 2014 to remain in the Union by an 11% margin. There is no evidence of a swing to separation since. Edited August 5, 2023 by Johnny Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Just now, Johnny Martin said: We aren't ruled by Westminster. We elect MPs to it, same as the rest of the country. At the end of the day, Scots voted decisively in 2014 to remain in the Union by an 11% margin. There is no evidence of a swing to separation since. Not ruled by Westminster? Jesus! You do live in a Unionist bubble don't you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, Johnny Martin said: We aren't ruled by Westminster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Zern said: How do you measure support for parties? Votes appear the most effective way. So the majority of Scots (who expressed an opinion at the last election) support parties in favour of independence. Hence the majority in the Scottish Parliament. Alternatively you could go by membership numbers. How many members does the Scottish Labour Party have? None. There is only the UK Labour Party. Same for the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party and the so-called Scottish Lib Dems. Fictional parties with no members, because you cannot join those parties. Yeah of course you can move the goalposts if you're that desperate to win a debate on a football forum. If someone doesn't vote then they still exist, by definition they don't support a political party. 11 hours ago, lichtgilphead said: 1) Scottish citizens are not the same as the Scottish electorate. I have English friends that vote SNP & Scottish relations in England that would vote for Indy. 2) It's a legitimate choice not to vote, but anyone who chooses to do so does so in the knowledge that their views will not be taken into account. It's undemocratic to count non-voters as favouring a particular side (It didn't stop the Yoons from fixing the 1979 referendum by this method though) If you pick and choose your polls, of course. At the last Holyrood election, the SNP took 40.34% of the regional vote, the Greens took 8.12% and Alba took 1.66%. That's 50.12% of votes cast, before you even begin to count Indy supporting list parties that got less than 1% As always, you appear to be proved incorrect in your assertions Again, this is obvious but it's not what was being claimed. The term "Scots" is not synonymous to "the electorate". This isn't difficult but when you're struggling with the words feel free to lash out like last time and spend 2 days down voting all my posts, it suits you better. 1 hour ago, StellarHibee said: Unless you vote and your party/side doesn't win, in which case, your views still won't be taken into account. Something RuMoore is likely very familiar with. I have no clue what this means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 We aren't ruled by Westminster The blackleg John Martin was mainly known for his hilarious role of playing the clown to be ridiculed by the public. Seems his namesake is following in the footsteps of his hero. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, RuMoore said: I'm sure he is but he's responding to someone saying most Scots don't support the SNP as opposed to the general electorate. It's obviously a major issue in Scottish politics but the other poster is objectively correct when he says the majority of Scots don't support the Nationalist parties. He didn't say majority - he said most - which has a completely different meaning. Edited August 5, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Johnny Martin said: Majority just means most i.e. over 50% MAJORITY | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary majority noun [ U ] US /məˈdʒɔr·ɪ·t̬i, -ˈdʒɑr-/ Add to word list more than half of a total number or amount; the larger part of something: A majority of the people voted against the bill to raise school taxes. Unsure where you got your definition from. You should really know these things considering you're a teacher? Your post said most not majority. There's a big difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 18 hours ago, Johnny Martin said: Most Scots don't. Just to show that you used the word most you disingenuous shitebag. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: He didn't say majority - he said most - which has a completely different meaning. The majority of Scots don't support Nationalist parties and neither do most Scots... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RuMoore said: The majority of Scots don't support Nationalist parties and neither do most Scots... Wrong on both counts. Even with the majority term there's a majority of voters who voted for parties committed to independence. The term most is deliberately used to ignore the reality that there is a near 50-50 split between unionists and nationalists. If unionists are so confident that they are in the majority then why not have an Indyref2? Or is it the case that they are frightened unionist support is very soft and will drop during the campaign as it did last time round? Edited August 5, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses1924 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Wrong on both counts. I dont see how that can be wrong, given @RuMoorestates in both cases "Scots" not "Scots who vote"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 20 minutes ago, RuMoore said: The majority of Scots don't support Nationalist parties and neither do most Scots... The majority of Scots don't support the tory party, but we're ruled by them anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, moses1924 said: I dont see how that can be wrong, given @RuMoorestates in both cases "Scots" not "Scots who vote"? If you don't vote you don't have a say. Adding together unionist party votes and non-voters isn't how democracy works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Wrong on both counts. Even with the majority term there's a majority of voters who voted for parties committed to independence. The term most is deliberately used to ignore the reality that there is a near 50-50 split between unionists and nationalists. If unionists are so confident that they are in the majority then why not have an Indyref2? Or is it the case that they are frightened unionist support is very soft and will drop during the campaign as it did last time round? We're talking about "Scots" not the wider electorate. You've made an arse of it, just admit it rather than this tragic alternative. Just now, StellarHibee said: The majority of Scots don't support the tory party, but we're ruled by them anyway. I don't disagree with that, it's a decent argument and I'm sure a lot of people are compelled by that fact. I'm sure we'd all agree that PR is preferable. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 It's like arguing with a child. The puddle-drinking simpleton is going on ignore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Another interesting way of saying "I've made an arse of it"... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, RuMoore said: I'm sure we'd all agree that PR is preferable. The tories and Labour at Westminster don't seem to think so. But they may decide to shoehorn it into Holyrood if they still can't touch the SNP there, considering the ultimate failure of their list system. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: It's like arguing with a child. The puddle-drinking simpleton is going on ignore. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses1924 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 17 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: If you don't vote you don't have a say. Adding together unionist party votes and non-voters isn't how democracy works. That's al true but still doesn't mean "the majority of Scots do not support indepence suporting parites" is not true given the debate is around Scots rather than Scots who vote. It would be equally true to say the majority of Scots don't support unionist parties using the same paramaters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, RuMoore said: 13 minutes ago, RuMoore said: Another interesting way of saying "I've made an arse of it"... One last reply. It doesn't matter if you use Scots (resorting to ethno-nationalism - no surprise) or the wider electorate - most does not apply to either. Most implies an overwhelming majority not just a simple majority - as you know well it does. I'll leave it there as no doubt you're sock puppets will come white-knighting you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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