ayrmad Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can't speak for Mr Bairn but I can wait for it to be over. It hasn't been a fantastic debate, it's been a nasty debate with people worried to bring it up in conversation and any tweet or comment on social media met with a barrage of abuse from people who find it and disagree. Further, we've spent years having this at the top of our political agenda at a time when the economy has been in the shitter, international politics has been at its most significant since Iraq, inequality is increasing, underemployment, food banks, zero hour contracts etc have become more and more problematic but all the political focus has essentially been on whether we will have a British or a Scottish passport in five years time. I hope No wins, but really I just want it over so we can stop caring about something relatively insignificant (despite the constant reminders that this is 'much more important than anything else' etc, to me it is insignificant in comparison with the social problems the UK is facing) and we can try to sort out what actually matters and return to the debate about how to help those who need it and how to solve problems that actually matter. This must be the most ironic post I've ever read on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I hope No wins, but really I just want it over so we can stop caring about something relatively insignificant (despite the constant reminders that this is 'much more important than anything else' etc, to me it is insignificant in comparison with the social problems the UK is facing) and we can try to sort out what actually matters and return to the debate about how to help those who need it and how to solve problems that actually matter. Are you having an actual giraffe? As you are the most fervent Labour supporter on here, I hope the above is either tongue in cheek or an attempt at comedy. If not, I GENUINELY fear for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Are you having an actual giraffe? As you are the most fervent Labour supporter on here, I hope the above is either tongue in cheek or an attempt at comedy. If not, I GENUINELY fear for you. Do you ever make arguments or respond to actual points made, or do you just react with over the too descriptions of how shocked you are and 'GENUINELY' fearful you are for people who haven't subscribed to the same world view that you have? What exactly do you genuinely fear will happen to me? But yes, I am a Labour voter and I'm a labour voter because I'm left-wing. I therefore care a lot more about left-wing issues than I do about the referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can't speak for Mr Bairn but I can wait for it to be over. It hasn't been a fantastic debate, it's been a nasty debate with people worried to bring it up in conversation and any tweet or comment on social media met with a barrage of abuse from people who find it and disagree. Further, we've spent years having this at the top of our political agenda at a time when the economy has been in the shitter, international politics has been at its most significant since Iraq, inequality is increasing, underemployment, food banks, zero hour contracts etc have become more and more problematic but all the political focus has essentially been on whether we will have a British or a Scottish passport in five years time. I hope No wins, but really I just want it over so we can stop caring about something relatively insignificant (despite the constant reminders that this is 'much more important than anything else' etc, to me it is insignificant in comparison with the social problems the UK is facing) and we can try to sort out what actually matters and return to the debate about how to help those who need it and how to solve problems that actually matter. It's funny you don't seem to realise it's the no side who want to discuss things like passports, border controls etc.... While avoiding debating (or sometimes just not bothering to turn up for a debate) some of the real issues you mention. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It's funny you don't seem to realise it's the no side who want to discuss things like passports, border controls etc.... While avoiding debating (or sometimes just not bothering to turn up for a debate) some of the real issues you mention. I don't care which side do what (I'm not voting on the basis of what the official campaigns are doing but on what I believe is best for the UK), both sides are focused on the referendum, not on the things that matter to me. Once the referendum is over and we can move on we can go back to focusing on what matters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Do you ever make arguments or respond to actual points made, or do you just react with over the too descriptions of how shocked you are and 'GENUINELY' fearful you are for people who haven't subscribed to the same world view that you have? What exactly do you genuinely fear will happen to me? But yes, I am a Labour voter and I'm a labour voter because I'm left-wing. I therefore care a lot more about left-wing issues than I do about the referendum. Is this parody day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't care which side do what (I'm not voting on the basis of what the official campaigns are doing but on what I believe is best for the UK), both sides are focused on the referendum, not on the things that matter to me. Once the referendum is over and we can move on we can go back to focusing on what matters. Why dont you vote on what you think is best for Scotland? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't care which side do what (I'm not voting on the basis of what the official campaigns are doing but on what I believe is best for the UK), both sides are focused on the referendum, not on the things that matter to me. Once the referendum is over and we can move on we can go back to focusing on what matters. Yet you have just pointed out some of the serious problems we have within the UK and it's not as if they just popped up overnight I fail to see how things will change if we vote no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Why dont you vote on what you think is best for Scotland? Because I don't only care about Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Why dont you vote on what you think is best for Scotland? Man. You just can't resist to take the exact same pot-shot every day can you? Because I don't only care about Scotland. ^^^ This. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yet you have just pointed out some of the serious problems we have within the UK and it's not as if they just popped up overnight I fail to see how things will change if we vote no. I don't think they will change either way without effort and time, but I'm an optimist and I believe that we can achieve these things. Having them competing for media focus with issues like independence however puts them lower down the agenda. I hope that the big focus post-referendum will be on these things. way I see it is the best way for this to happen is for the UK to stay together and Ed to win the election next year. Others may think it is to have an independent Scotland, either way once the referendum is done I think it is then that we can focus on these issues. The referendum debate itself I dislike, think is destructing and has attracted some of the worst kinds of arguments and debates. People seem to take this debate so personally, and it's getting to the point that if someone in 'neutral' company (e.g. a work night out) mentions the way they are voting and you can almost feel the tension spread around the table. I've never experienced that with politics in the UK before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Do you ever make arguments or respond to actual points made, or do you just react with over the too descriptions of how shocked you are and 'GENUINELY' fearful you are for people who haven't subscribed to the same world view that you have? What exactly do you genuinely fear will happen to me? But yes, I am a Labour voter and I'm a labour voter because I'm left-wing. I therefore care a lot more about left-wing issues than I do about the referendum. I was responding to actual points made. Yours. So far as I can see from your contribution thus far, your commitment to the Labour party outshines your commitment to Scotland. You care about left wing issues? Labour positioning themselves a millimetre to the left of the Tories does not make them a left wing party. Tell me - what do Labour in Westminster plan to do about foodbanks, child poverty, zero hours contracts, the wealth gap in Britain, Work Capabality Assessments or Trident? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Because I don't only care about Scotland.How far does your 'caring' travel? Do you care about the people of say France? Ukraine? China? Australia? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 How far does your 'caring' travel? Do you care about the people of say France? Ukraine? China? Australia? Are they going to be affected by this decision? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 How far does your 'caring' travel? Do you care about the people of say France? Ukraine? China? Australia? Yes, but this isn't about Scotland becoming independent from France, Ukraine, China and Australia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, but this isn't about Scotland becoming independent from France, Ukraine, China and Australia. Correct, this is about what's best for Scotland not the UK.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Let's just leave things shite in Scotland so rUK isn't affected though, great idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Correct, this is about what's best for Scotland not the UK.... Actually it's up to everyone what they vote on. I'd guess the majority of people will vote on what personally suits them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I don't think they will change either way without effort and time, but I'm an optimist and I believe that we can achieve these things. Having them competing for media focus with issues like independence however puts them lower down the agenda. I hope that the big focus post-referendum will be on these things. way I see it is the best way for this to happen is for the UK to stay together and Ed to win the election next year. Others may think it is to have an independent Scotland, either way once the referendum is done I think it is then that we can focus on these issues. The referendum debate itself I dislike, think is destructing and has attracted some of the worst kinds of arguments and debates. People seem to take this debate so personally, and it's getting to the point that if someone in 'neutral' company (e.g. a work night out) mentions the way they are voting and you can almost feel the tension spread around the table. I've never experienced that with politics in the UK before. So this month's email from headquarters has told you to push the 'it's a distraction' line. For what it's worth, it hasn't lowered these things on the agenda - as if people could only concentrate on one thing at a time. In actual fact I think it's got more people talking about social issues on a much broader and deeper scale than at any point since the destruction of the left 30 odd years ago. It's actually got a lot of people from different backgrounds talking alternative solutions to longstanding social issues - it's got them researching, looking at how others deal with similar problems. Granted it's a wee bit different from the standard Labour approach, which is to take a focus group from the English home counties, ask them what they think and then do what the daily Mail tells them, but in my opinion - this debate has been by far a healthier approach to asking questions about how the coutnry is run and for who's benefit, than waiting for 'Ed' to finish his triangulating. Edited July 31, 2014 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I was responding to actual points made. Yours. So far as I can see from your contribution thus far, your commitment to the Labour party outshines your commitment to Scotland. You care about left wing issues? Labour positioning themselves a millimetre to the left of the Tories does not make them a left wing party. Tell me - what do Labour in Westminster plan to do about foodbanks, child poverty, zero hours contracts, the wealth gap in Britain, Work Capabality Assessments or Trident? I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK and I think Labour victories are the best thing for the country. That doesn't really make any difference to the point I was making though, which isn't anything to do with Labour but to do with my belief that the independence referendum is distracting from the things I personally think matter more. Labour are the only party in Westminster to have a track record of removing children from poverty and have consistent policies to help those who need it, such as introducing the minimum wage. Labour are the party who want to look into the impact zero hour contracts have and on the local level it is Labour activists making a fuss and attempting to get companies and groups to stop using them and are the only one of the three major parties committed to ending the bedroom tax. But none of this is in any way relevant to the point I was making, that the referendum is a distraction from these things and I personally wish there was more of a focus on these issues rather than on he referendum. What has Trident got to do with anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.