Mediocre Pundit Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'm sure it was mentioned (likely in this thread) that there's a Caledonian League (or something) that sits below, but not linked to, the Highland League. If there was to be a 19 team Highland League next season would that not give impetus to being these two together? (along with, as mentioned, allowing Banks O'Dee entry - potentially aiming for two leagues of 16?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The North Caledonian League is a historical anomaly as it's an amateur league that is under the jurisdiction of the SFA. Currently it's running with six teams from Alness, Golspie, Dornoch, Halkirk, Thurso and Orkney, all from the northern Highlands. Historically, the junior game hasn't really encompassed the Highlands much, until recently stopping just on the Moray/Highland border, so the NCL was somewhere to play winter football outwith the HFL/juniors (and without the ground grading requirements). None of the current NCL sides have anywhere near the facilities for the HFL, let alone the juniors. Golspie and Thurso I suppose have do have enclosed grounds. The standard of football on offer is entertaining, but probably below district level. The rest of the amateur/welfare football in the Highlands/Northeast is mainly summer season and a few teams have jumped ship from winter to summer recently. It's a bit frustrating as you'd think the north would have the ideal pyramid structure, what with the SJFA apparently abandoning the north clubs by excluding them from the proposed junior Sooperdooperleague. Ideally (although this has been done to death on multiple occasions), I'd say a HFL of 14-16 clubs with the North Superleague of 14-16 clubs below, then regional below that (Either West/East as it is now or perhaps North/Central/East). Run the local cups at the end of the season as HibeeJibee suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 North Caledonian League. It only has 6 clubs, of which 5 are located between Cromarty and John O'Groats and the other is Orkney FC. They only play 10 league games. League was on verge of collapse last season - anything fewer than 6 clubs basically means curtains - and it sounds like it may be at risk again. In addition to which the Secretary has apparently resigned with immediate effect. Some ground basically public parks. http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/alness.htm http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/golspie.htm http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/halkirk.htm http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/orkney.htm http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/sutherland.htm http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/thurso.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Halkirk Utd interestingly had (and still have if rumours are true) ambitions to join the HFL. The new ground has two biggish enclosures and floodlights and wouldn't be insurmountable to enclose. They had a rich benefactor a couple of years ago who funded the developments. If Caithness could support two HFL teams is another matter... I also seem to remember Alness Utd trying to join the Juniors not so long ago. Think one of Muir of Ord's incarnations is thinking the same. Rovers are in abeyance from the NCL but the not unrelated United are in the Inverness amateurs. Given the state of a lot of the North Junior grounds, to be honest, they wouldn't be far off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's a bit frustrating as you'd think the north would have the ideal pyramid structure, what with the SJFA apparently abandoning the north clubs by excluding them from the proposed junior Sooperdooperleague. Ideally (although this has been done to death on multiple occasions), I'd say a HFL of 14-16 clubs with the North Superleague of 14-16 clubs below, then regional below that (Either West/East as it is now or perhaps North/Central/East). Run the local cups at the end of the season as HibeeJibee suggests. Aye, looks good on paper - with the new structure I would hope that they ultimately aimed towards something like that. And Orkney FC would suddenly become the dream Scottish Cup away tie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Latest on Brora's position from STV. I don't think Montrose and Edinburgh City have much to worry about, they don't seem up for it at all... See what you mean - their chairman sounds absolutely gutted at the prospect of playing in the SPFL! When asked about the players competing in the play-offs, he said: "I don't think I can stop them from trying their best". He also says they might expect to be given a 3-4 months grace period to get the floodlights up to bronze standard, if they prove not to be already. And that the club will be willing to do the necessary if the team does win through the pyramid play-offs. Get a sparky in Brora, pronto! His comments about the increased costs are interesting - you'd think that the £30k+ minimum that they'll get from the SPFL (if they finish 42nd next season) would cover their travel costs at least. As a guide to the costs of travel (maybe?) the SFA pay clubs up to £400 for an away Scottish Cup tie of over 50 miles; the SJFA pay something similar for journeys over 200 miles. I suppose, after Elgin, the next-shortest away journeys for Brora would be around the 200 mile mark - to Arbroath (possibly), East Fife, East Stirling. With 300-odd to Annan as the furthest. As an average-ish guide: £400 x 18 away matches = £7200. Plenty of change from £30k. Bizarre situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I did the sums myself when this was getting discussed on another thread. Brora's travelling would be 3,712 miles this season and it would be 7,568 miles if they replaced Montrose and Stirling replaced Albion Rovers... Put another way about 220 miles per match in HL (17 away matches) against 420 in SPFL2 (18 away matches). That is obviously a startling increase in travel, unsurprisingly so given no other club in the pyramid is as far north. Except for Wick. EDIT: Before anyone says, I know it could vary in future e.g. if Montrose came back up / Peterhead came down at the expense of more southerly clubs. I just looked at next season. On the other hand HL prize money is (according to FitbaNorth) about £2k + £17 per point, totalling under £5k. Whereas it's 5/6 times that in SPFL2 (and even finishing bottom was supposed to be worth £33k when SPFL2 was founded, will be bit less as no title sponsor). Losing in HLC R1 is worth £175, versus several thousand in SPFL League Cup (and was £10,500 when it had a sponsor). So the expense is higher, but the income is much higher too. Stuff beyond that - 18th home game, perhaps bigger gates - is probably of only secondary significance to prizemoney income. Of course, even going up and straight back down would mean parachutes totalling £60k over 2yrs, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 we're not relegated yet. I listened to the sportsound interview. The chairman is approaching the play off with the same kind of enthusiasm that most people would have for a compulsory vacation in North Korea. Totally bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Sportsound just interviewed the Brora Chairman - he was saying that they're just about to sit down and do the sums now that the league is won. If it comes down to finances then I suspect you're right HJ and the increased revenues will outweigh the increased costs. I wonder if it's more the psychology of all the travelling that's the real difficulty, not the money. Last season's prize money distributed by the SPFL was circa £18m, which was £32,400 for Club 42 (0.18% of the total pot). If Brora replace Montrose, Montrose will get £40,000 parachute payment next season - which is more than they would get for finishing as high as 6th in League Two (£39,600). Could be handy for a promotion push! EDIT: Sorry Ivo, just read your post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think it's a lot to do with simple conservatism as far as Brora's reluctance goes. the financial argument is a piece of nonsense. *although* that may change is sugar daddy Ben McKay gets bored and spends his cash somewhere else. Then there is an argument that Brora would not be sustainable at national level. But that's for the medium-term... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Right, because with no fan base to speak of that £30k+ from the SPFL would have to stretch to players' wages aswell as all the travelling if Mackay gets bored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I see there's a bit of a bizarre argument spraying across twitter between a couple of STV reporters... Jamie Borthwick seems to hold little sympathy for Brora spending big money to win HL but being reluctant about going up, and Grant Russell cites that Brora voted in favour of HL joining pyramid... and some seemingly anti-pyramid figures including Ewan Murray of the Guardian. Appears even our journos are getting in a lather over the topic. Incidentally, Borthwick says Brora get £3k all-up in HL and would get circa £32k in SPFL2. Obviously the relevant question is how much the expenses would increase, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I understand the reluctance to go "up" from Brora. What apart from, maybe SPFL cash is the attraction of League 2? Games against local rivals are more attractive than 'Shire, Annan etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 it's a bit galling, though, when it's your league place (that they don't really want) that they might end up taking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 it's a bit galling, though, when it's your league place (that they don't really want) that they might end up takingAt the same time I understand that. I think it is the weakness and the hurried introduction of the pyramid starting to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 yep. I support the pyramid. I just find it totally bizarre that a club in Brora's position wouldn't. I admit there's not much fun in facing the likes of Shire and Annan 4 times a season but the reality is that if Brora keep that squad together they will likely be in League One pretty quickly. A decisive few weeks ahead for all concerned. I suppose it is a bit unfair that everyone is just assuming that Brora will beat Edinburgh, they have also had a great season and absolutely no one in the MSM is even talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Brora aren't worthy of being in the league. The fact that they'll almost need to be dragged in kicking and screaming shows that. No idea of how good Edinburgh City are, but Montrose aren't the worst bottom side I've ever seen. Not by a long way. Personally, I hope they stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Right, because with no fan base to speak of that £30k+ from the SPFL would have to stretch to players' wages aswell as all the travelling if Mackay gets bored?If they can't afford a good side then the same thing will happen to them as any other team that can't afford a good enough side for the next tier up, they get relegated. Being worried you won't be good enough after being promoted is hardly a reason to justify the moaning of brora. Talk of exciting games vs local rivals , but that's not exactly true is it? They are miles from the other HL sides as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If they can't afford a good side then the same thing will happen to them as any other team that can't afford a good enough side for the next tier up, they get relegated. Being worried you won't be good enough after being promoted is hardly a reason to justify the moaning of brora. Talk of exciting games vs local rivals , but that's not exactly true is it? They are miles from the other HL sides as well. But they enjoy beating them just now. I doubt their support care much about the teams in League 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty0310 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 yep. I support the pyramid. I just find it totally bizarre that a club in Brora's position wouldn't. I admit there's not much fun in facing the likes of Shire and Annan 4 times a season but the reality is that if Brora keep that squad together they will likely be in League One pretty quickly. A decisive few weeks ahead for all concerned. I suppose it is a bit unfair that everyone is just assuming that Brora will beat Edinburgh, they have also had a great season and absolutely no one in the MSM is even talking about it. Thing is the chances of them keeping their big players are unlikely. The brora chairman said (someone posted it here earlier) that they would likely have to rebuild their squad if promoted as the players don't like the idea of travelling a lot. Big wages and little travelling is the only reason they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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