git-intae-thum Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Surely everyone over 60 should abstain. This vote is about the future. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Surely everyone over 60 should abstain. This vote is about the future. What with the new improved supa-doopa NHS that we're getting, 90 will be the new 60 ! These folk have got years left in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Surely everyone over 60 should abstain. This vote is about the future. Take it a step further - leave it to the 16-17 year old voters who (surprisingly) in a range of polls come out on the No side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Feckin hell. 30 more years of baby boomer whopper pensions. No wonder everyone under 40 is no getting to retire until they are a hunner aand fifteen???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I get what you're saying GD, and as I've posted somewhere in this tangle of threads, I voted SNP in 92 because I was heartfelt sick of the Tories but it doesn't have to follow that I now have to think the same 20 odd years later (I am still heartfelt sick of the Tories though TBF). Weighing up the UK V 'what I believe to be the alternative' (its not very clear) I've gone for the status quo, I don't know about you but the current Tories aren't a patch on the Thatcher Tories and what with the whole world wide recession affecting everyone I've decided to not go for what is (basically) the SNP option. That doesn't mean I'm dead set against the idea of an independent Scotland just that I don't fancy what's on offer. Trying to take the moral high ground by implying that anyone who disagree's is selfish is a bit churlish, I'm getting bored of repeating myself but I WILL BE FINE EITHER WAY, I'M VOTING FOR WHAT I THINK WILL BENEFIT OTHERS. You may disagree with my view, fair enough but there does seem to be a 'Saint Diana' smugness about a lot of YES voters who are voting YES for the 'poor'. Do you really think that all the people who vote NAW are all selfish and uncaring ? I know its easier to make it all goodies and baddies but come on, just accept that people see a different way to the same (or at least not totally dissimilar) end. You are entitled to you opinion, of course you are. And you say you have explained yourself elsewhere. Fine. But man, what a woolly, limp, half arsed couple of paragraphs in support of the status quo. It's as if you don't even believe it yourself. Get a bit of fire in your belly man, wake up and vote YES!!! A No vote is to the detriment of the future of Scotland. It's as plain as the nose on your boat race. And yes I know you're coming to come back and say it's just my opinion, but I have looked into the facts on both sides. It's a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I get what you're saying GD, and as I've posted somewhere in this tangle of threads, I voted SNP in 92 because I was heartfelt sick of the Tories but it doesn't have to follow that I now have to think the same 20 odd years later (I am still heartfelt sick of the Tories though TBF). Weighing up the UK V 'what I believe to be the alternative' (its not very clear) I've gone for the status quo, I don't know about you but the current Tories aren't a patch on the Thatcher Tories and what with the whole world wide recession affecting everyone I've decided to not go for what is (basically) the SNP option. That doesn't mean I'm dead set against the idea of an independent Scotland just that I don't fancy what's on offer. Trying to take the moral high ground by implying that anyone who disagree's is selfish is a bit churlish, I'm getting bored of repeating myself but I WILL BE FINE EITHER WAY, I'M VOTING FOR WHAT I THINK WILL BENEFIT OTHERS. You may disagree with my view, fair enough but there does seem to be a 'Saint Diana' smugness about a lot of YES voters who are voting YES for the 'poor'. Do you really think that all the people who vote NAW are all selfish and uncaring ? I know its easier to make it all goodies and baddies but come on, just accept that people see a different way to the same (or at least not totally dissimilar) end. If you believe that Cameron's Tories aren't as bad as Thatcher's then you're living in cloud cuckoo land. We have seen public services eroded, the sell-off of the Royal Mail on the cheap ( even Thatcher wouldn't privatise the Royal Mail) and greater attacks on society's most vulnerable. Their not any better, just a bit more subtle and presentable with. Better PR. Even if you genuinely believe the present Tories are not as bad as the past lot what the hell do you think will happen in the future? "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". I've not posted extensively on this forum but I will repeat something I have said. I believe the whole economic argument is largely a red herring; under Independence we will be slightly better off at best and slightly worse off at worst. For me the arguement is largely one based on democracy. Probably doesn't stir the imagination the same as all the 'sexy' economic stuff, but there's been an ongoing erosion of democracy for years. Democratically accountable bodies having less control and unaccountable entities having a far greater say over our lives. Changing that in a country the size of the UK would be impossible, changing it in a smaller country will still be very difficult, but achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 You are entitled to you opinion, of course you are. And you say you have explained yourself elsewhere. Fine. But man, what a woolly, limp, half arsed couple of paragraphs in support of the status quo. It's as if you don't even believe it yourself. Get a bit of fire in your belly man, wake up and vote YES!!! A No vote is to the detriment of the future of Scotland. It's as plain as the nose on your boat race. And yes I know you're coming to come back and say it's just my opinion, but I have looked into the facts on both sides. It's a no brainer. Good for you, why can't you just accept that I (and according to the polls a fair number of others) see it differently. As for fire in the belly, I'll leave that to the young team, this is a decision for the head not the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If you believe that Cameron's Tories aren't as bad as Thatcher's then you're living in cloud cuckoo land. We have seen public services eroded, the sell-off of the Royal Mail on the cheap ( even Thatcher wouldn't privatise the Royal Mail) and greater attacks on society's most vulnerable. Their not any better, just a bit more subtle and presentable with. Better PR. Even if you genuinely believe the present Tories are not as bad as the past lot what the hell do you think will happen in the future? "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". I've not posted extensively on this forum but I will repeat something I have said. I believe the whole economic argument is largely a red herring; under Independence we will be slightly better off at best and slightly worse off at worst. For me the arguement is largely one based on democracy. Probably doesn't stir the imagination the same as all the 'sexy' economic stuff, but there's been an ongoing erosion of democracy for years. Democratically accountable bodies having less control and unaccountable entities having a far greater say over our lives. Changing that in a country the size of the UK would be impossible, changing it in a smaller country will still be very difficult, but achievable. I follow your logic and as I've posted elsewhere, if the doomsday scenario arrives of another term of Tories/Boris becomes PM/referendum takes us out of Europe I'd more than likely vote for independence. The SNP may have shot their bolt a bit early because I think in this scenario most of Scotland would want a divorce from England. That doesn't mean I will base my vote on a load of ifs, buts and maybe's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If you believe that Cameron's Tories aren't as bad as Thatcher's then you're living in cloud cuckoo land. We have seen public services eroded, the sell-off of the Royal Mail on the cheap ( even Thatcher wouldn't privatise the Royal Mail) and greater attacks on society's most vulnerable. Their not any better, just a bit more subtle and presentable with. Better PR. Old Vince Cable made a right cnut of that sell off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Cost of living in Edinburgh. Another reason to vote No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Good for you, why can't you just accept that I (and according to the polls a fair number of others) see it differently. As for fire in the belly, I'll leave that to the young team, this is a decision for the head not the heart. Because I refuse to accept it. Looking at all the information available Independence is a no brainer. Scotland will be worse off under the constraints of the Union. And it angers me that future generations of Scots might be denied the opportunities and excitement an independent Scotland would bring because of the easily led, brainwashed, MSM infused nawbags. It's a decision for the head and heart. And both say aye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I follow your logic and as I've posted elsewhere, if the doomsday scenario arrives of another term of Tories/Boris becomes PM/referendum takes us out of Europe I'd more than likely vote for independence. The SNP may have shot their bolt a bit early because I think in this scenario most of Scotland would want a divorce from England. That doesn't mean I will base my vote on a load of ifs, buts and maybe's. There will always be ifs and buts, the past is always very easily forgotten by those that find comfort in a pile of shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie's Pigeon Feed Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 My patch the other night was a de-facto retirement home, one close 7 of 9 answered, all 80+, all living alone, all waiting to die, all voting No, none wanting to talk about it. Selfish old wankers but what can you do, they're about to die, they can barely cope with changing tv channels let alone changing political systems and their Britishness is no doubt amplified by WW2. If it doesn't happen this time it will in a decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It seems to me that a vast majority of older people are voting No. Why should they vote Yes, when their life is comfortable? They've had decades of the Union and it hasn't served them individually too badly. Own house, savings, pension, comfortable life.The question is, should they feel the weight of responsibility on generations to come, or are they quite right to stick two fingers up to everyone else?That's the beauty of democracy, but it would be if these people gave some thought to this Greek proverb:A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.casual ageism based on anecdotal evidence imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 casual ageism based on anecdotal evidence imo You've changed my mind. You've provided too much evidence and too compelling a case. You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 My patch the other night was a de-facto retirement home, one close 7 of 9 answered, all 80+, all living alone, all waiting to die, all voting No, none wanting to talk about it. Selfish old wankers but what can you do, they're about to die, they can barely cope with changing tv channels let alone changing political systems and their Britishness is no doubt amplified by WW2. If it doesn't happen this time it will in a decade or so. Pretty amazed you couldn't convert them with that chat. "Stop being selfish old wankers! Vote Yes before you die!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 There are a few No voters giving it the old 'but its my right to have this opinion - and why can't you accept that'. This point is, of course, very true. But it is a sure sign that you have lost the argument - and are choosing to vote on blind faith instead of logic. Confi sometimes goes a wee bit far for my liking - but he argues the case, and deals with the issues. I challenge you to stop complaining about the nature of the debate and instead try and actually engage in the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Pretty amazed you couldn't convert them with that chat. "Stop being selfish old wankers! Vote Yes before you die!" Aye he's being harsh on the elderly but essentially his point is a right. The attachment of the war is still too strong - and I don't think there's anything that Yes can do to win these people round. If we have to wait another 10 or 20 years then so be it - but hopefully the younger generation will carry us through this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 There are a few No voters giving it the old 'but its my right to have this opinion - and why can't you accept that'. This point is, of course, very true. But it is a sure sign that you have lost the argument - and are choosing to vote on blind faith instead of logic. Confi sometimes goes a wee bit far for my liking - but he argues the case, and deals with the issues. I challenge you to stop complaining about the nature of the debate and instead try and actually engage in the issues. Quite agree. It's a wee bit like Labour voters voting for that party regardless of its policies ( and I say that as someone who was a party activist for 20 years). In a representative democracy everyone who is entitled to vote can do so in their way. However people who can't or won't justify their position on such a crucial issue pisses me off. I have no doubt that a post election analysis will show the older age groups are amongst the bigger NO supporters and will have amongst the highest turnout. In the event of a NO vote, and a further referendum 15 - 20 years down line line, it will be interesting to see if the present 35 - 55 group retains it's position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Confi sometimes goes a wee bit far for my liking - but he argues the case, and deals with the issues. If I ever become a masked vigilante, there's my motto right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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