All things Dundee FC

[2426255]

2 hours ago, RawB93 said:

If this was mentioned in here at the time then I missed it, but just seen that Lyall Cameron was invited along to train with the Scotland first team in May.

Absolutely class for the young lad and hope he impressed and got a good idea of what the standard is like at that level. 

You've misread that I think. Tommy Conway, Leon King and Lewis Fiorini were the under-21 players invited to train with the Scotland 1st team. Lyall Cameron was with the 21s.

[RawB93]

2 hours ago, 2426255 said:

You've misread that I think.

It won’t be the last time Lyall makes me spunk my load early, that’s for sure. 

[Derry Alli]

Gutting news about Eddie Annand. Best wishes to him and his family.

EDDIE! 

[Fifespud]

1 hour ago, Derry Alli said:

Gutting news about Eddie Annand. Best wishes to him and his family.

EDDIE! 

God just googled it. A very honest type player, did a great job for us. Very sad.

[Dee Bliss]

16 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

I think someone, somewhere has been VERY economical with the truth in regards to his height, though.

1.8m is 5ft11. He's lucky if he's 5ft7.

Edit, meant to add screenshot!

Think we’re pushing it at 5ft 7 as well. 

[KrisG]

If Portales is going to miss some time with his injury, do we see Doc change from his 3 CB formation to 4 at the back?Staying with 3, he's only got McGhee or perhaps Kerr (RCB) as an alternative. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

8 minutes ago, KrisG said:

If Portales is going to miss some time with his injury, do we see Doc change from his 3 CB formation to 4 at the back?Staying with 3, he's only got McGhee or perhaps Kerr (RCB) as an alternative. 

French and Donnelly are options too, through French is only just returning and Donnelly is an unknown it seems. Not having a lot of luck with defensive depth of late.

[Boo Khaki]

7 hours ago, Dee Bliss said:

Think we’re pushing it at 5ft 7 as well. 

Aye. Not that it really matters, because an inch or two in height wouldn't really make any appreciable difference to anything, but I reckon he's closer to 5'5", maybe 5'4" in his socks.

I await the inevitable 'inch or two in length though eh/missus' quips.

[Boo Khaki]

5 hours ago, KrisG said:

If Portales is going to miss some time with his injury, do we see Doc change from his 3 CB formation to 4 at the back?Staying with 3, he's only got McGhee or perhaps Kerr (RCB) as an alternative. 

Someone needs to check the latest "Football Manager" and see if McGhee is rated 'competent' at CM or something, because that's the only conceivable reason I can think of for why consecutive managers have played him there. 

I thought we might go more to a genuine 5/3 rather than 3/5 away from home. Doesn't solve the CB depth issue, but I'd be more confident in our defensive solidity if there was a true FB playing outside the CB's, but the problem there is I don't think it's fair to ask McCowan to play like that, and he's by far and away one of our biggest threats with the ball. 

4 seems sensible, though I think it would be 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1, because I don't believe we have the players to play 4-4-2 at this level. Neither Boateng or Mulligan have great passing ranges, and Cameron would get bodied, so I think the whole point of developing 3/5 was to be able to accommodate players like Cameron and McCowan, and still be able to play 2 up front.

I was screaming for something similar early in McPake's time, and I totally understood why he started off with that setup. It just turned out Forster was a complete liability, and we had to abandon it, Hemmings then spent most of the remainder of the season playing up front on his own with absolutely no service. I worry that this season might turn into a similar story with Robinson if Docherty has to go away from 3/5 5/3, so perhaps we just need to grin and bear it until French, the loanee, and Portales are back fit and well.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Boo Khaki

[Fifespud]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Someone needs to check the latest "Football Manager" and see if McGhee is rated 'competent' at CM or something, because that's the only conceivable reason I can think of for why consecutive managers have played him there. 

I thought we might go more to a genuine 5/3 rather than 3/5 away from home. Doesn't solve the CB depth issue, but I'd be more confident in our defensive solidity if there was a true FB playing outside the CB's, but the problem there is I don't think it's fair to ask McCowan to play like that, and he's by far and away one of our biggest threats with the ball. 

4 seems sensible, though I think it would be 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1, because I don't believe we have the players to play 4-4-2 at this level. Neither Boateng or Mulligan have great passing ranges, and Cameron would get bodied, so I think the whole point of developing 3/5 was to be able to accommodate players like Cameron and McCowan, and still be able to play 2 up front.

I was screaming for something similar early in McPake's time, and I totally understood why he started off with that setup. It just turned out Forster was a complete liability, and we had to abandon it, Hemmings then spent most of the remainder of the season playing up front on his own with absolutely no service. I worry that this season might turn into a similar story with Robinson if Docherty has to go away from 3/5 5/3, so perhaps we just need to grin and bear it until French, the loanee, and Portales are back fit and well.

This is the dilemma explained perfectly. I think McGhee obviously WANTS to play in midfield, he’s got a wee bit of touch and general baller ability, managers want to play him because he can play and defend, has the right mentality, they feel they can get a midfielder and spare CH rolled into 1, and it gives them the courage to play 2 up. It doesn’t work. 

[Boo Khaki]

TBH, from what I've seen over the last two games, we aren't really playing 3/5/2 anyway. Being really picky, it's more like 3/4/1/2, so McCowan and Beck aren't really playing like WB's, more wide midfield/wingers who are tasked with trying to get back and assist the wider CB. The '1' is perfect for Cameron and exactly how he should be used, so in fairness to Docherty I think he has a far better grasp on the nuances of this squad and the capabilities of the players in it than some of our previous managers did with previous squads. 

That doesn't mean that I think there is any justification at all for playing McGhee in midfield. Before we picked up Boateng I could almost understand it paired with the right player, but we still don't have that 'right' player, and as far as I can see Boateng does what McGhee does but at higher level and with more upside. 

I actually like McGhee as a player. I think he has a good attitude and I've never watched him play and came away angry at a performance. I don't think there is any questioning his personality and effort, I just don't really understand why managers persist with him putting in 'meh' performances in midfield, when the one season he really was a standout (I think he won POTY in his first season?) was when he played at CB.

A wee note on McCowan - I remember watching him playing in a game at Dens about 3/4 of the way through last season. I can't remember which match precisely, but we were awful in the first half, but improved and won the match in the 2nd. McCowan played down the right, and he continually cut back inside not far beyond the half-way line. This was infuriating me, because the opposition leftback was sitting in tight and leaving acres of space down the flank, and also, the act of cutting back constantly was slowing down our play and preventing any chance of getting in behind them. I recall sitting there thinking, fine, he's left footed and wants to play on his strong foot, but FFS, sometimes you have to pressure the FB and threaten to go down the outside regardless.

I remember that he did exactly that and stopped the cutting back in the second half. At least, when he did cut inside he was doing it in a far more advanced part of the pitch. I've noticed that this has continued to be the case so far this season, and he looks far more consistently threatening as a player for it. I think someone spotted the same thing and has helped him train that tendency out a bit. It's encouraging to see, because I thought a year or so back that he was one of the few players in the squad aged 24-25 or thereabouts who were worth hanging on to, because there was a suspicion there was a good bit more to come. I hope it continues. Nice to see fans of other teams highlighting him as looking quite handy. I don't think you can ever be a truly effective wide player if you never attack and pressure the FB, because it makes your entire team so much easier to defend, so it's also encouraging that staff seem to have picked up on that and addressed it.

I'd agree with the few posters who have said that the early impressions of Docherty and his team are that there's a wee bit more of a sense of organisation, not strictly in terms of play on the park, but there seems to be more of a cohesive, coherent approach to recruiting, using players appropriately, and I think we look maybe a wee bit fitter and sharper than we sometimes have. It's a bit weird, because I've kinda gotten used to us being a complete shambles for the first few months of the season. Were we no something like 7th in the table at one point round about October/November last year?

Edited August 8, 2023 by Boo Khaki

[Ludo*1]

Donnelly is away back to his parent club due to injury. Dunno if that's the loan cancelled or it's a Tolaj situation where he'll be looked after by them then sent back to us again but either way, very unlikely he'll play for us anytime soon if at all.

[Dee Bliss]

We could do with a left sided centrehalf now. 

[Boo Khaki]

 

[Boo Khaki]

Don't really understand some of the comments under that Twitter release. 

He's barely kicked a ball in over a year for the club. Successive managers clearly don't rate him. He's by no means a showy type player, but had a habit of having 1 decent performance in 10 and being totally invisible for other 9, so I don't really get the "daft decision" stuff.

[This Charming Man]

Good luck to Shaun Byrne in his future career, he is by all reports an all round good lad.

Really difficult to look back on any of the James McPake era without total disdain. Promotion was only gained two years ago due to Charlie Adam (having virtually invited and arranged his own signing the previous summer) dragging us up single-handed, kicking and screaming.

Anyway, my solitary James McPake (managerial) favourite moment is as below at Rugby Park via Shaun Byrne's mobile.

Thank you Danny Mullen for making us smile and mon' The Doc this season.

 

 

[Pens_Dark]

I never really got the love-in for Shaun Byrne with the majority of our fans. He was decent enough but cut the shape of a player we desperately needed to improve on for a couple of seasons at the very least. This is why I didn't mind whatsoever Bowyer identifying him as a player that he wanted to get out the door. 

All that being said I hope he does well at Raith, never seemed like a player with a bad attitude or one to cause problems. 

[Dee Bliss]

For me Byrne needed to be more forward thinking when in possession. 
 

Wish him all the best for the future. Free’s up a wage hopefully for us to bring in another player. 

[Wee jeemie]

Shaun was a proper Marmite player , half the fans couldn’t understand why he couldn’t get a game , and the other half happy to see the back of him , me I think I can remember him having half a dozen excellent games the rest of them just meh 

[Fifespud]

Seems like a pretty decent guy but he rarely showed the ability he, apparently, had at Livi. All the best Shaun but I’m totally not bothered he’s gone.