Nicola Sturgeon

[H_B]

Still, it's a moot point anyway, as the Yes clowns have assured us the SP will get no new powers, given "The Vow" is a broken promise.

[renton]

Still, it's a moot point anyway, as the Yes clowns have assured us the SP will get no new powers, given "The Vow" is a broken promise.

I think the point is a little bit more sophisticated than that. I think the general idea is that folk are sceptical that Holyrood will receive significantly more useful powers, than currently. The Labour Devo-Nano plans may theoretically give Holyrood more latitude on income tax, and therefore fulfills the 'vow' but there is no doubt that devolving partial income tax the way they propose would lead to no actual change in how the tax is set currently.

[H_B]

I think the point is a little bit more sophisticated than that.

Still, you must acknowledge the pant-wetting glee from the clown collective in the (hours) following the defeat has proven to be laughably inaccurate.

To be consigned to the dustbin of predictions, in the same way the pre-referendum ones have, now that actually we're advancing with the mechanism of achieving this.

[Wee Bully]

Still, you must acknowledge the pant-wetting glee from the clown collective in the (hours) following the defeat has proven to be laughably inaccurate.

To be consigned to the dustbin of predictions, in the same way the pre-referendum ones have, now that actually we're advancing with the mechanism of achieving this.

To be honest, it is a Win-Win.

Either we get significant new powers (which is a good thing - I'm a gradualist), or we don't (which is a good thing - we will be back to the people asking the question again). Every which way, it is a winner.

[renton]

Still, you must acknowledge the pant-wetting glee from the clown collective in the (hours) following the defeat has proven to be laughably inaccurate.

To be consigned to the dustbin of predictions, in the same way the pre-referendum ones have, now that actually we're advancing with the mechanism of achieving this.

Not yet it hasn't. In truth we won't know until well into the next parliament whether or not Smith's recommmendations, whatever they turn out to be are taken up, or whether the winning party (assuming a majorit government) basically plows on with it's own ideas on the subject (in which case, if it's Labour, then those doom laden predicitons would be broadly correct) or even whether tying it up to EVEL is sufficient to kick it into the long grass for a good few years to come.

[H_B]

To be honest, it is a Win-Win.

Either we get significant new powers (which is a good thing - I'm a gradualist), or we don't (which is a good thing - we will be back to the people asking the question again). Every which way, it is a winner.

I see where you are coming from, but I don't think the appetite for another referendum is really there. There was never really an appetite for it in the first place - it just kind of fell into place with the SNP election win. It wasn't why they were elected, more a by product of it.

I think anything along the lines of what has been suggested will be enough to end secession as a topic for the expected 15-20 years. After that, who knows? I would expect there to be another vote in my lifetime.

[H_B]

Not yet it hasn't. In truth we won't know until well into the next parliament whether or not Smith's recommmendations, whatever they turn out to be are taken up, or whether the winning party (assuming a majorit government) basically plows on with it's own ideas on the subject (in which case, if it's Labour, then those doom laden predicitons would be broadly correct) or even whether tying it up to EVEL is sufficient to kick it into the long grass for a good few years to come.

Well, we were told it wasn't going to happen at all.

Whereas what's actually happened is that we are ahead of schedule with the timetable proposed, given the command paper appeared well ahead of schedule.

[renton]

Well, we were told it wasn't going to happen at all.

Whereas what's actually happened is that we are ahead of schedule with the timetable proposed, given the command paper appeared well ahead of schedule.

Again this goes back to the original point, getting something is not the same as getting something useful, or indeed what the Scottish people actually want. So being ahead of schedule is a box ticking exercise if decoupled form the actual content of what is being proposed. We might not get anything useful out of this, still. Which is kinda the point.

[Reynard]

Again this goes back to the original point, getting something is not the same as getting something useful, or indeed what the Scottish people actually want. So being ahead of schedule is a box ticking exercise if decoupled form the actual content of what is being proposed. We might not get anything useful out of this, still. Which is kinda the point.

A 5bn drop in spending as proposed by Sturgeon with her badly thought, out non costed proposals? Is that what you think Scots want? Fair enough, I'm all for a slashing back of state spend actually, I'd be shocked if you were though.

[renton]

A 5bn drop in spending as proposed by Sturgeon with her badly thought, out non costed proposals? Is that what you think Scots want? Fair enough, I'm all for a slashing back of state spend actually, I'd be shocked if you were though.

I think, generally scots want devo max, where devo max is defined as responsible for spending and raising money with defence and foreign affairs as the only reserved powers. I think this is borne out by Curtice's repeated SSAS excersices and indeed in individual BPC polling on the issue as well.

[Reynard]

I think, generally scots want devo max, where devo max is defined as responsible for spending and raising money with defence and foreign affairs as the only reserved powers. I think this is borne out by Curtice's repeated SSAS excersices and indeed in individual BPC polling on the issue as well.

Lets see how that pans out when it becomes clear that Scotland actually loses out. I think the point of the "think tanks" press release yesterday was to show that Scotland actually does pretty well from Barnet etc at the moment. Something the nationalists seem to be unwilling to accept, but I'm all for as much being shunted up here as possible simply to see how the nationalists react to the taste of the big shit sandwich they seem to want to bite into. Their fantasy figures and lack of any costings are going to utterly shaft them here if they aren't careful.

[Reynard]

Whats happened to " Business for Scotland"?

They seem to have gone very quiet. Surely as the respected voice of the Scottish business community, they would be hard at it for their members?

Having had a look through their website, it seems to be dying on its arse. A few articles this month with zero comment and thats about it.

[renton]

Whats happened to " Business for Scotland"?

They seem to have gone very quiet. Surely as the respected voice of the Scottish business community, they would be hard at it for their members?

Having had a look through their website, it seems to be dying on its arse. A few articles this month with zero comment and thats about it.

It was inevitable that some of the mechanisms and groups set in motion by the referendum would be dismantled afterwards, places like Bella Caledonia, National Collective and WoS will probably survive due to the nature of their content - topical, opinion based work. A pure pressure group like BfS probably doesn't have much else to say at this point.

[Reynard]

BfS was being sold as some sort of voice for Scottish business with independence leanings. It was averaging around 25 articles a month since the turn of this year but so far in October there have been 3 (three) articles. Could it be that BfS was simply a campaigning tool for the SNP? How was it being funded? It seems fairly clear that it's revenue stream has fucked off along with its dreams of an independent Scotland. Youd have thought with "thoosands" of members that it would have been self sustaining? Maybe those who went to the "annual" dinner prior to the referendum had better hang on to their tickets and their menu as they might be worth something on the antiques roadshow down the line.

Its a shame that the media up here didn't run a proper expose of these utter charlatans, but the SNP boot boys had put the fear of god up them. The tactics of true authoritarians.

[renton]

Lets see how that pans out when it becomes clear that Scotland actually loses out. I think the point of the "think tanks" press release yesterday was to show that Scotland actually does pretty well from Barnet etc at the moment. Something the nationalists seem to be unwilling to accept, but I'm all for as much being shunted up here as possible simply to see how the nationalists react to the taste of the big shit sandwich they seem to want to bite into. Their fantasy figures and lack of any costings are going to utterly shaft them here if they aren't careful.

Well, like all 'think tanks' we have to factor in existing biases. A 'think tank' led by a former Labour SPAD for example, may be trying to push a particular line to help gian sympathy for his onw party's Devo nano approach.

As an aside, why is it that Labour folk always seem to form the most think tanks? It just seems to be a natural career progression for those SPADS who don't make it to the hallowed ground of a constituency short list.....

[Reynard]

It was inevitable that some of the mechanisms and groups set in motion by the referendum would be dismantled afterwards, places like Bella Caledonia, National Collective and WoS will probably survive due to the nature of their content - topical, opinion based work. A pure pressure group like BfS probably doesn't have much else to say at this point.

It never did have anything worthwhile to contribute. But they did say that they were self funded and here to stay. Looks like thats another lie to add to their gigantic list.

[renton]

BfS was being sold as some sort of voice for Scottish business with independence leanings. It was averaging around 25 articles a month since the turn of this year but so far in October there have been 3 (three) articles. Could it be that BfS was simply a campaigning tool for the SNP? How was it being funded? It seems fairly clear that it's revenue stream has fucked off along with its dreams of an independent Scotland. Youd have thought with "thoosands" of members that it would have been self sustaining? Maybe those who went to the "annual" dinner prior to the referendum had better hang on to their tickets and their menu as they might be worth something on the antiques roadshow down the line.

Its a shame that the media up here didn't run a proper expose of these utter charlatans, but the SNP boot boys had put the fear of god up them. The tactics of true authoritarians.

I'm struggling to see what your point is. BfS may have been a 'voice' for those businesses with Indy leanings. Indy is now not going to happen for a while. Ergo, the point of it has dissapeared (as it would've done had thier been a Yes vote as well)

[renton]

It never did have anything worthwhile to contribute. But they did say that they were self funded and here to stay. Looks like thats another lie to add to their gigantic list.

be fair, that's what you think of anything that doesn't conform to your own views anyway.

[Colkitto]

The UK appears to have run up a "black hole" of £58 billion over past 6 months alone. But it's a Westminster black hole so it doesn't matter

[Reynard]

Well, like all 'think tanks' we have to factor in existing biases. A 'think tank' led by a former Labour SPAD for example, may be trying to push a particular line to help gian sympathy for his onw party's Devo nano approach.

As an aside, why is it that Labour folk always seem to form the most think tanks? It just seems to be a natural career progression for those SPADS who don't make it to the hallowed ground of a constituency short list.....

Ive got a friend that works at the ASI as an economist. He worked at Westminster as a Spad initially before being headhunted. My friends brother was a SPAD to Keith Vaz but has since gone back into the legal profession. Plenty of these type of people do this. Move from job to job, get headhunted.

Instead of attacking their integrity it might be worthwhile attacking what they have actually said here. If what they have said is not right then lets hear it.