ecto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Whether some on the no side want to admit it or not the Yes campaign came very close to getting the right result. A last ditch panic and promises that don't really look like being kept saved the day. I agree to a certain extent that we have to wait and see what is being offered. The more powers the harder it is to have another referendum soon. But, if there isn't substantial powers coming to Scotland then expect a referendum before 2020. surely we need to wait and see what happens, even Kevin MacKenna thinks there will be a deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Its the only peaceful way. That most recent one wasn't all that peaceful. Just ask Jim Murphy. ETA... Don't you come here with all your usual Anglo Saxon expletives. You might upset Ecto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Its the only peaceful way. Winning more than 1/2 the Scottish seats at Westminster would be democratic and peaceful. Although that may not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Winning more than 1/2 the Scottish seats at Westminster would be democratic and peaceful. Although that may not happen. A bloodless coup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 A referendum is not necessarily the only route to an Independent Scotland. Its the only peaceful way. Winning more than 1/2 the Scottish seats at Westminster would be democratic and peaceful. Although that may not happen. always had you more of an optimist than a fantasist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Winning more than 1/2 the Scottish seats at Westminster would be democratic and peaceful. Although that may not happen. I'd say it DEFINITELY wont happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 always had you more of an optimist than a fantasist I'd say it DEFINITELY wont happen. An awful lot has changed in the last 6 months in terms of folks interest in politics. If the SNP and the others somehow coordinate an anti-Labour vote than it could get interesting. Not sure that'll happen but there is a lot of hatred towards the Labour Party right now - and a lot of MP's will be a wee bit nervous right now. If all the Yes voters decide to vote tactically than they'll do a lot of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 An awful lot has changed in the last 6 months in terms of folks interest in politics. If the SNP and the others somehow coordinate an anti-Labour vote than it could get interesting. Not sure that'll happen but there is a lot of hatred towards the Labour Party right now - and a lot of MP's will be a wee bit nervous right now. If all the Yes voters decide to vote tactically than they'll do a lot of damage. An awful lot has changed in the last 6 months in terms of folks interest in politics. If the SNP and the others somehow coordinate an anti-Labour vote than it could get interesting. Not sure that'll happen but there is a lot of hatred towards the Labour Party right now - and a lot of MP's will be a wee bit nervous right now. If all the Yes voters decide to vote tactically than they'll do a lot of damage. It won't. Lets face it, the best the SNP ever did was 11 seats off a 30% share of the vote. And that was in smaller constituencies. The system is rigged in Labours favour. The Likes of the Tories had near enough the same number of punters voting for them as both the Libdems and the SNP last time out and it got them a seat. Labour changed all the boundaries specifically to deny the tories any representation while maximising their own vote to seat ratio. The SNP will maybe pick up a lot more second places, but they arent going to capitalise all that much. Theyll still be a distant second to Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It won't. Lets face it, the best the SNP ever did was 11 seats off a 30% share of the vote. And that was in smaller constituencies. The system is rigged in Labours favour. The Likes of the Tories had near enough the same number of punters voting for them as both the Libdems and the SNP last time out and it got them a seat. Labour changed all the boundaries specifically to deny the tories any representation while maximising their own vote to seat ratio. The SNP will maybe pick up a lot more second places, but they arent going to capitalise all that much. Theyll still be a distant second to Labour. You may well be right but you're basing all this on the last general election. My point is that the referendum has been electrifying for politics in Scotland and there are a lot of angry Yes voters out there who want to hurt those they blame for the loss. The biggest target is definitely Scottish Labour due to the left wing nature of the Yes campaign. The turnout was massive and if those who voted Yes decide to make another statement then Labour will need to get their vote out. Right now they're in disarray. Also their biggest weapon has always been 'vote Labour to stop the Tories getting in' but that won't work nearly as much due to their stance alongside the Tories in the No campaign. I think it could be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'd say it DEFINITELY wont happen. It won't? The Labour party in Scotland is falling apart at the seams. Lamont's resignation couldn't have come at a worse time for them and I have no doubt the process to elect a new leader will be unseemly and messy - the only benefactors will be the SNP - I certainly can't see the Scottish Conservatives sweeping the boards come next May! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It won't? The Labour party in Scotland is falling apart at the seams. Lamont's resignation couldn't have come at a worse time for them and I have no doubt the process to elect a new leader will be unseemly and messy - the only benefactors will be the SNP - I certainly can't see the Scottish Conservatives sweeping the boards come next May! I am not sure of this, a good clean election of a new leader, might just cut the SNP off at the knees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It won't? The Labour party in Scotland is falling apart at the seams. Lamont's resignation couldn't have come at a worse time for them and I have no doubt the process to elect a new leader will be unseemly and messy - the only benefactors will be the SNP - I certainly can't see the Scottish Conservatives sweeping the boards come next May! Thats what I said. Labour will have a new leader by the time of the elction in May, as will the SNP. Most folk wont give a flying f**k . And this is a general election. The scottish electorate have already shown they are more than capable of making a distinction between this and a Holyrood one and will vote accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Thats what I said. Labour will have a new leader by the time of the elction in May, as will the SNP. Most folk wont give a flying f**k . You seem to be desperately hoping for apathy to set in once again. I don't think it will due to the reawakening of the electorate during the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I am not sure of this, a good clean election of a new leader, might just cut the SNP off at the knees I don't think so - I think there are too many deep divisions in there and right now it's very difficult to see who could possibly reunite and reconnect them. I totally agree with Pandarilla that : "there are a lot of angry Yes voters out there who want to hurt those they blame for the loss" Who would you want to see take over from JL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I don't think so - I think there are too many deep divisions in there and right now it's very difficult to see who could possibly reunite and reconnect them. I totally agree with Pandarilla that : "there are a lot of angry Yes voters out there who want to hurt those they blame for the loss" Who would you want to see take over from JL? not everyone's cup of tea, but I like Jim Murphy, and I am not so sure there are as many angry "Yessrs" as people think, don't think the world of P&B is a true reflection of the "real world" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You seem to be desperately hoping for apathy to set in once again. I don't think it will due to the reawakening of the electorate during the referendum. Of course right wingers want apathy! If ordinary folk started to take more of an interest in how the country is governed then those in power will be in trouble. (And just in case the new labour lads are reading this - yes the Labour Party are part of the problem - and have been for some time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis pakora Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You seem to be desperately hoping for apathy to set in once again. I don't think it will due to the reawakening of the electorate during the referendum. Yep the electorate definitely did wake up,just ask the silent majority about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Wonder why Galloway would say Brown is the only man to save Britain? Didn't the No side win a month ago and there is no chance of another referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthEnclosure Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The ONLY referendum on the horizon is the EU one, and that could be another 40 years if Lib Dems and Lab have their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotlandGer Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Anas Sarwar is bookies' favourite ???? There are few incentives for Murphy. I imagine the MP group will use the situation to take an upper hand over the MSP group and there's few candidates there regardless among MSPs. Perhaps Ken McIntosh whose constituency overlaps with Murphy's and who lost out to Lamont only on the union vote last time around. Based on Jackie Baillie's interview this morning, it looks as if there is an inability to even try and learn the lessons from this. Brown may go for it after 2015 as he would be reluctant to be in charge for an election where they will lose seats. I mind reading an interesting study about political careers in Spain where it is fairly commonplace for politicians to return to regional/national parliaments after their Madrid careers. The same dynamic could work here. To be fair to Lamont, I read the headline this morning and assumed it was an ordered, quiet side-step ahead of someone stepping in. To go out like she did was something at least. Labour are now an utter shambles with a GE only a few months away. Lamont's own words will help to drain further from their ability to position as a party best able to represent Scotland's interests. Record number of SNP MPs 2015 to kick on to 2016 for the big election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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