Fide Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Would Findlay have lost 98% of his seats? I think he would have done worse. :lol: Oh, Labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Labour MSP Elaine Smith adds her voice to those wanting shot of James Francis Elaine Smith MSP@elainesmithmsp · 2h 2 hours ago Well done @Neil_FindlayMSP and @Alex_RowleyMSP Time for a new direction for Scottish Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think he would have done worse. Would have alienated the Morningside voters who tactically allowed Ian Murray back in. We went to the country with a left-wing manifesto which spoke only to ourselves and got routed in Scotland and defeated heavily in England. Lurching left will compound this showing. Labour need to rediscover the centre ground and speak to aspiration. The SNP have managed, Labour need to fight them there. Then who is the socialist party in Scotland? Up until Blair and New Labour, the Labour Party in Scotland were a somewhat socialist party. But they had to work with a non-socialist English Labour Party. Any policies they wanted were soon watered down in Parliament. Now they are a Tory party in everything but name. Lord Jack McConnell and Lord Michael Martin are fine examples of the Labour Party in Scotland. It would be hard to deny that the Scottish National Party is the new socialist leaning party in Scotland. That makes the Scottish Labour Party redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Shambles. Go home Slab, yer drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Mocking Murphy has kind of stopped being fun for me now. It was better when it felt like punching up. Who else is left to entertain me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Then who is the socialist party in Scotland? Up until Blair and New Labour, the Labour Party in Scotland were a somewhat socialist party. But they had to work with a non-socialist English Labour Party. Any policies they wanted were soon watered down in Parliament. Now they are a Tory party in everything but name. Lord Jack McConnell and Lord Michael Martin are fine examples of the Labour Party in Scotland. It would be hard to deny that the Scottish National Party is the new socialist leaning party in Scotland. That makes the Scottish Labour Party redundant. Labour should be a social democratic party as the SNP probably are. I don't really want to see Labour return to the extreme left, ideologically or pragmatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't really want to see Labour return to the extreme left, ideologically or pragmatically. I hope you continue to enjoy political oblivion then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think he would have done worse. Would have alienated the Morningside voters who tactically allowed Ian Murray back in. We went to the country with a left-wing manifesto which spoke only to ourselves and got routed in Scotland and defeated heavily in England. Lurching left will compound this showing. Labour need to rediscover the centre ground and speak to aspiration. The SNP have managed, Labour need to fight them there. I'm not sure Edinburgh South was all that tactical. All things considered Murray kept it with a reasonably large majority. Labour MSP Elaine Smith adds her voice to those wanting shot of James Francis Elaine Smith MSP@elainesmithmsp · 2h 2 hours ago Well done @Neil_FindlayMSP and @Alex_RowleyMSP Time for a new direction for Scottish Labour. Elaine Smith is the MSP for Coatbridge & Chryston that just booted out a sitting MP that had a 20k plus majority for several decades, and the SNP won by 5 figures themselves. Goodness knows why she might be shitting herself. Probably get back in on the list right enough, if Labour have stopped treating list members as diddy MSPs that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think he would have done worse. Would have alienated the Morningside voters who tactically allowed Ian Murray back in. We went to the country with a left-wing manifesto which spoke only to ourselves and got routed in Scotland and defeated heavily in England. Lurching left will compound this showing. Labour need to rediscover the centre ground and speak to aspiration. The SNP have managed, Labour need to fight them there. The centre is an entirely subjective. What you would describe as the current centre would've been considered very right wing as recently as Blair's second term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Labour MSP and councillors must be shitting it big time next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't really want to see Labour return to the extreme left, ideologically or pragmatically. How could they return to a place they've never been? Taxing non-doms at a fairer rate, the mansion tax, vaguely softening the austerity drive, at least talking about energy prices and so on - these are not extreme left positions by any means. If I'd thought for one second that Miliband would ever try to implement any of them, he might have got my vote. But I saw him spend three years as the Energy and Climate Change Secretary without challenging the energy cartel once. Then I saw him spend a year and a half deciding whether or not he should oppose the Bedroom Tax. Then I saw him and Balls competing with Osborne to say how much they wouldn't share Scotland's currency with Scotland... They didn't lose because they went too far left. They lost because they were shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Labour should be a social democratic party as the SNP probably are. I don't really want to see Labour return to the extreme left, ideologically or pragmatically. Good call. I meant to say that I consider the SNP as a social democratic Party. I think the Labour party has missed that boat. The Labour Party should be a full blown left-wing party but only after independence. Get rid of Lord Jack and Lord Mike and the rest of those non-democratic, job-for-life, paid-by-the-taxpayer chancers. In an independent Scotland there will be some form of PR. That means there will be room for lefties like me. Perhaps in a Scottish Labour Party.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 How could they return to a place they've never been? Taxing non-doms at a fairer rate, the mansion tax, vaguely softening the austerity drive, at least talking about energy prices and so on - these are not extreme left positions by any means. If I'd thought for one second that Miliband would ever try to implement any of them, he might have got my vote. But I saw him spend three years as the Energy and Climate Change Secretary without challenging the energy cartel once. Then I saw him spend a year and a half deciding whether or not he should oppose the Bedroom Tax. Then I saw him and Balls competing with Osborne to say how much they wouldn't share Scotland's currency with Scotland... They didn't lose because they went too far left. They lost because they were shite. These are examples of policies where I believe Miliband and Labour made a huge mistake. They went into an election calling for multiple taxes to be raised. Worst of all they did it out of an ideological desire to raise taxes. When speaking to people on the left of the party the glee they had about the mansion tax, raising the top rate, taxing non-dons all seemed to basically be 'those rich b*****ds deserve to be taxed', rather than viewing taxation as a necessary evil. Meanwhile the Tories are talking about taking more low-paid workers out of tax, they ruled out their pet tax rise (VAT) early on and created a vision in which people outwith their natural supporter base would be looked after. It's at the point where I, someone at the beginning of my career, less than a year out of university, will probably be doing better out of the Tory manifesto (bottom rate of income tax increased, married man tax allowance, help to buy ISA etc) than under a Labour one. Ideologically I disagree with them and don't mind being personally worse off in order to have a socially democratic country, but people who aren't natural Labour supporters will have looked at our manifesto and probably quite rightly thought there was nothing in it for them, and gone off with the Tories or the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think he would have done worse. Would have alienated the Morningside voters who tactically allowed Ian Murray back in. We went to the country with a left-wing manifesto which spoke only to ourselves and got routed in Scotland and defeated heavily in England. Lurching left will compound this showing. Labour need to rediscover the centre ground and speak to aspiration. The SNP have managed, Labour need to fight them there. See what I mean, you literally have no idea what left-wing means. Labour's manifesto was a million miles from being left-wing, it was entirely centrist. They are a centrist party now, and have people like you attaching themselves to them wanting to pull them to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good call. I meant to say that I consider the SNP as a social democratic Party. I think the Labour party has missed that boat. The Labour Party should be a full blown left-wing party but only after independence. Get rid of Lord Jack and Lord Mike and the rest of those non-democratic, job-for-life, paid-by-the-taxpayer chancers. In an independent Scotland there will be some form of PR. That means there will be room for lefties like me. Perhaps in a Scottish Labour Party.? The SNP are not a social Democratic Party but are wearing their clothes. Hopefully we will develop into such a party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Labour should be a social democratic party as the SNP probably are. I don't really want to see Labour return to the extreme left, ideologically or pragmatically. But you yourself were claiming you personally were left-wing, had campaigned for left-wing policies all your adult life and called Blair and Labour left-wing. Do you see how contradictory your statements are? And how much they are concrete proof you don't have a fucking clue what 'left-wing' actually means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 JMO clearly doesn't have a scooby as to what actually constitutes Left-wing politics; he's an absolute fucking disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 But you yourself were claiming you personally were left-wing, had campaigned for left-wing policies all your adult life and called Blair and Labour left-wing. Do you see how contradictory your statements are? And how much they are concrete proof you don't have a fucking clue what 'left-wing' actually means? I am left-wing. I am moderately left of centre. We probably have differing opinions of what left-wing constitutes, but you went to a world top 200 university to study politics so I guess we are all supposed to bow down to your superior insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The SNP are not a social Democratic Party but are wearing their clothes. Hopefully we will develop into such a party. Perhaps they are not but I haven't seen anything yet to refute that. I did say that I consider the SNP to be a social democratic Party (non caps) and as such there is no room for a SLP under the same banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am left-wing. I am moderately left of centre. We probably have differing opinions of what left-wing constitutes, but you went to a world top 200 university to study politics so I guess we are all supposed to bow down to your superior insights. No you're not. Read your first two sentences "I am left-wing. I am moderately left of centre." They are not the same thing, you can't be both. And its nothing to do with opinions, it doesn't matter what anybody's 'opinion' of what left-wing politics are is, there is an actual answer to that. You can think left-wing means anything you want, it doesn't change what it actually means. And you clearly just don't know what it means, that's why you use the term in relation to you, Labour and Tony Blair, none of whom are remotely close to being left-wing. Seriously, go to google, type 'left-wing politics' into the search bar and spend ten minutes doing some reading. You will quickly find neither you, Blair or Labour are remotely left-wing. Not even the SNP are left-wing, they are centre-left, and they're left of Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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