Dunning1874 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Right. And what actual effect will having 20-odd MPs mean in a Parliament of 600 odd? Well, quite. Scotland could give every single seat to the SNP and they'd still be dwarfed by the Tories and Labour in terms of seats. It's almost as if it's hard for Scotland to be properly represented in Westminster and there's a democratic deficit as a result. If only we had some opportunity to address this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Can you tell me one policy decision that would be different and have an affect on our daily lives if nobody in Scotland had voted in the last election? We wouldn't have had a coalition government, if Scottish MPs didn't count. There would have been a Conservative majority governmnent. Unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well, quite. Scotland could give every single seat to the SNP and they'd still be dwarfed by the Tories and Labour in terms of seats. It's almost as if it's hard for Scotland to be properly represented in Westminster and there's a democratic deficit as a result. If only we had some opportunity to address this. There should be a referendum on it. It's hard for all regions of the UK to get their own way in a Parliament composed of all. Is it a democratic deficit for Yorkshire? Also, Orkney and Shetland didn't vote for the SNP in Holyrood. How are you going about addressing their democratic deficit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 We wouldn't have had a coalition government, if Scottish MPs didn't count. There would have been a Conservative majority governmnent. Unlucky. Great. Now answer my question, how has having a coalition government rather than a Tory majority made a difference to our lives? Btw, you have to enjoy the irony of someone who supports the union playing down the importance of a party getting the majority of seats and votes in Scotland. "SNP being the most popular party of the people in the next election, what difference will that make?" You must be so proud. There should be a referendum on it. It's hard for all regions of the UK to get their own way in a Parliament composed of all. Is it a democratic deficit for Yorkshire? Also, Orkney and Shetland didn't vote for the SNP in Holyrood. How are you going about addressing their democratic deficit ? Oh aye, I forgot about the nations of Orkney and Shetland. The argument is that we're told we get "the best of both worlds" and that Scotland can still be a proud country within this "nation of nations", and yet we're one of the only nations on planet earth that can't democratically decide who runs their country. Unless you genuinely just think of Scotland as a region of Britain and nothing else, comparing Scotland to wee islands like Orkney is just being stupid on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 There should be a referendum on it. It's hard for all regions of the UK to get their own way in a Parliament composed of all. Is it a democratic deficit for Yorkshire? Also, Orkney and Shetland didn't vote for the SNP in Holyrood. How are you going about addressing their democratic deficit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 HB's out of his depth wibbling aside, I would be a bit more cautious than talking about the SNP winning most seats as some kind of formality. This election may well go right down to the wire, don't be suprised if big numbers come out to vote Labour if Engerland looks likely to give us another Tory government. Polls are one thing but a total of 40 MPs to 6 (41 at the last election) is an absolutely mammoth lead. The fact that the SNP returning the most Scottish MPs is even being speculated about shows a ridiculous change in the political landscape but North British Labour aren't finished yet. Can't wait for 10 page arguments about me predicting 50 seats for SNP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Also, Orkney and Shetland didn't vote for the SNP in Holyrood. How are you going about addressing their democratic deficit ? Ah, the old Shibboleths. It makes me nostalgic for August, and the constant cry of "Won't somebody think of the Orcadians!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 'Democracy Rocks' Oh dear. Apparently air and water are good things as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Great. Now answer my question, how has having a coalition government rather than a Tory majority made a difference to our lives? It's quite clearly made a difference - there are many policies which have been implemented in the last Parliament purely because the Lib Dems are in the coalition. You are having an utter nightmare here. Btw, you have to enjoy the irony of someone who supports the union playing down the importance of a party getting the majority of seats and votes in Scotland. Individual regional tallies are utterly irrelevant in a UK wide election. Oh aye, I forgot about the nations of Orkney and Shetland. What on earth does being a "nation" have to do with a democratic deficit? Answer the question - what is being done about the disgraceful democratic deficit the people of Orkney and Shetland face? Why when they don't vote SNP do they have to suffer an SNP government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ah, the old Shibboleths. It makes me nostalgic for August, and the constant cry of "Won't somebody think of the Orcadians!!!" Is it or is it not a democratic deficit faced by the people of Shetland and Orkney? Why do they have to suffer an SNP government they didn't vote for and have never voted for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Unless you genuinely just think of Scotland as a region of Britain I do. Scotland has no more rights to determine the UK government's constitution that Yorkshire does, or Shetland does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The Shetland argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The "It's a Nation" argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Also, Orkney and Shetland didn't vote for the SNP in Holyrood. How are you going about addressing their democratic deficit ? Answer the question - what is being done about the disgraceful democratic deficit the people of Orkney and Shetland face? Why when they don't vote SNP do they have to suffer an SNP government? ^^^Willie Rennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 ^^^Willie Rennie Great banter. Now, about this democratic deficit. Don't you find it disgraceful that the people of Orkney and Shetland have this SNP government they DIDN'T vote for? How exactly are they supposed to get the government they want with so few MSPs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis pakora Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I didn't know Angus Robertson was a member of P & B Just for you old man danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It's quite clearly made a difference - there are many policies which have been implemented in the last Parliament purely because the Lib Dems are in the coalition. You are having an utter nightmare here. Individual regional tallies are utterly irrelevant in a UK wide election. What on earth does being a "nation" have to do with a democratic deficit? Answer the question - what is being done about the disgraceful democratic deficit the people of Orkney and Shetland face? Why when they don't vote SNP do they have to suffer an SNP government? Can you provide me with some examples? My feeling at the time was that I'd completely wasted my time voting Lib Dems (this is before I realised voting in Scotland is ALWAYS a waste of time in general elections), but maybe you can tell me something that proves I was part of the only election since WW2 where Scots made a difference. That'd be nice. As for your Orkney/Shetland point.... I do. Scotland has no more rights to determine the UK government's constitution that Yorkshire does, or Shetland does. .....and this..... I'll give you credit for something, at least you're honest about thinking of Scotland as an insignificant wee region. A lot of nawbags buttering up Scotland with this "we're better together, in this nation of nations" whilst also saying "you still can't have any powers" grated a bit. For those of us who think/thought of Scotland as a nation, the idea that we're one of the only nations on earth with no political say was a sore one to take. For people who think of where we live of as the Shetland of Britain, letting one region of England dictate how shit goes down to ourselves and all the other wee regions must be a treat. The "It's a Nation" argument Hilarious thought eh? Scotland, who's like us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 HBs still being a fanny. What team does he support? I'd love to read his thoughts on his football team for a change to see if the guy is actually genuine or just being a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He's a Falkirk fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You have neatly described the point. Even if the majority of Scotland votes SNP sending 50 MPs down to Westminster we have no influence. It's called a democratic deficit. You couldn't have made a better case for independence. Up against stiff opposition this is perhaps your most ridiculous post. We have just had a referendum that provided a specific mandate from the people to be a part of the UK democratic electoral system. A deficit is impossible unless you think democracy is getting what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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