Question Time

[BerwickMad]

Thanks for that, Ad Lib - now we can all see UKIP appearing on Question Time consistently in the 30-40% region whilst holding less than one percent of parliamentary seats and gaining c12% of the popular vote in the last General Election. The BBC certainly do seem to want to ensure Nigel's party gets more more "broad exposure" than its meagre electoral results would indicate it deserves.

Now if only we could factor in the Daily and Sunday Politics' inclusion of UKIPers ...

As for who should get exposure in lieu of UKIP, that would depend on where the show was coming from and what issues are likely to be tackled - remembering that there are "Eurosceptics" who are not UKIP MEPs.

What an utterly bizarre argument you're putting up. How can you even compare the percentages of appearances and popular vote/number of seats? One of percentage of all voters and the other is percentage of appearances on a show with 6 panel members. You're spouting absolute paranoid drivel.

[Antlion]

you dont seem to be getting it BBC/Ofcom take into % of the polls etc.. over MPs , and if you have been watching the EU debate its never just UKIP .The fact SNP are even close when they hold like 3% in UK polls is a joke

Prove that the BBC are required to take in % of the polls over MPs.

[Antlion]

Simple question:

Why shouldn't the BBC take into account the fact that UKIP are Britain's largest party in the European Parliament when deciding how much exposure they can reasonably expect from BBC programmes?

There's no reason they shouldn't - but the fact that the European Parliament and MEP's have never been a deciding factor in their picking guests (outside EU election specials), and the fact that there's no reason why it should be, implies that that this is simply being used as an excuse to give more coverage to UKIP than is warranted based on its electoral failure in ever other British democratic body.

[Antlion]

What an utterly bizarre argument you're putting up. How can you even compare the percentages of appearances and popular vote/number of seats? One of percentage of all voters and the other is percentage of appearances on a show with 6 panel members. You're spouting absolute paranoid drivel.

Perhaps you can provide the calculations by which UKIP are shoved on QT nearly 40% (or over) annually (and I'd guess even more on the Politics show and Newsnight). They are not a major party in UK politics. The major parties in British politics are the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP (replacing the Lib Dems) - that's the result of our electoral system and the makeup of all British parliaments. UKIP is not even the party offering a referendum on Europe, so why Paul Nuttall and Diane James are put forward by the BBC to discuss it twice in one night is strange.

[Gullane No 4]

Anyone keeping tabs of the number of times SNP/FibDems/UKIP have appeared on QT since the election.

Marr had UKIP' Carswell and Libdem leader [can't remember his name] on today.

They do seem to get an awful lot of chances to spout their nonsense.

[wotad]

Anyone keeping tabs of the number of times SNP/FibDems/UKIP have appeared on QT since the election.

Marr had UKIP' Carswell and Libdem leader [can't remember his name] on today.

They do seem to get an awful lot of chances to spout their nonsense.

labour are aloud to spout there nonsense also same for tories and snp who believe in Independence but needs EU to wipe their ass

[Benjamin_Nevis]

labour are aloud to spout there nonsense also same for tories and snp who believe in Independence but needs EU to wipe their ass

Fucking hell :lol:

[wotad]

Prove that the BBC are required to take in % of the polls over MPs.

Ofcom -

Evidence assessed

Ofcom is an evidence-based regulator and has carefully assessed all relevant evidence of support, including:

• previous electoral performance, including an analysis of share of vote alongside seats won; and
• trends in opinion polling data up to and including February 2015.

Ofcom has taken responses to its consultation into account, including calls for political party membership and the reported growth in membership of the Green Party, the Scottish Green Party and the SNP, to be considered as part of Ofcom’s evidence base.

As party membership remains a very small proportion of the total electorate, Ofcom concluded it was not as robust an indicator of wider support for the various parties as previous electoral performance and opinion polling data.

Ofcom's assessment also recognises that certain political parties field candidates across Great Britain, while other parties field candidates principally in England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

A summary of the evidence in relation to the Green Party (including the Scottish Green Party), TUV and UKIP is available below.

theres a article released this year about Ofcom/bbc ill try find it

this is not the article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10674846/Ukip-must-be-treated-like-any-major-party-Ofcom-rules.html

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/tv-debates-ofcom-rules-ukip-major-party-greens-are-not

they found the coverage of UKIP bad and forced the BBC to give UKIP more coverage there basically doing the same now

Edited February 7, 2016 by wotad

[mjw]

labour are aloud to spout there nonsense also same for tories and snp who believe in Independence but needs EU to wipe their ass

English isn't even your second language is it?

[bob the tank]

labour are aloud to spout there nonsense also same for tories and snp who believe in Independence but needs EU to wipe their ass

I wish you would stop insulting and engage in a rational debate for once

[Ad Lib]

Anyone keeping tabs of the number of times SNP/FibDems/UKIP have appeared on QT since the election.

There have been 28 episodes of Question Time since 7th May 2015. Appearances by party:

Conservatives 28 (100%)

Labour 28 (100%)

UKIP 11 (39%)

SNP 11 (39%)

Lib Dem 7 (25%)

Green 2 (7%)

Plaid 1 (4%)

DUP 1 (4%)

Sinn Fein 1 (4%)

Women's Equality Party 1 (4%)

Does this strike anyone as particularly egregious? Be honest.

[Granny Danger]

Perhaps you can provide the calculations by which UKIP are shoved on QT nearly 40% (or over) annually (and I'd guess even more on the Politics show and Newsnight). They are not a major party in UK politics. The major parties in British politics are the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP (replacing the Lib Dems) - that's the result of our electoral system and the makeup of all British parliaments. UKIP is not even the party offering a referendum on Europe, so why Paul Nuttall and Diane James are put forward by the BBC to discuss it twice in one night is strange.

UKIP got about 2.5 more votes in the UK than the SNP. Given the BBC is a UK wide broadcaster I would suggest that they are entitled to take that into account.

Folk should not use our fucked up electoral system to determine what is a 'major party'

[Antlion]

UKIP got about 2.5 more votes in the UK than the SNP. Given the BBC is a UK wide broadcaster I would suggest that they are entitled to take that into account.

Folk should not use our fucked up electoral system to determine what is a 'major party'

Of course they are entitled to, but then they are open to criticism for promoting their small conveyor belt of UKIP MEPs (and one MP) daily.

That 4 million is spread across 64 million people. If we have a fucked up electoral system in the British state (and we do) it is not up to the British state broadcaster to make up for its shortcomings by giving parties to which it has awarded very little widespread coverage. UKIP are simply not a major party in any UK Parliament. It's for the people here to vote in a party that will change the system (rather than parties which are committed to retaining it, as both major parties are).

Edited February 7, 2016 by Antlion

[Ad Lib]

Of course they are entitled to, but then they are open to criticism for promoting their small conveyor belt of UKIP MEPs (and one MP) daily.

That 4 million is spread across 64 million people. If we have a fucked up electoral system in the British state (and we do) it is not up to the British state broadcaster to make up for its shortcomings by giving parties to which it has awarded very little widespread coverage. UKIP are simply not a major party in any UK Parliament. It's for the people here to vote in a party that will change the system (rather than parties which are committed to retaining it, as both major parties are).

Question: Why shouldn't the BBC or other broadcasters take into account the fact that UKIP are the largest UK party in the European Parliament, both by seats and by popular vote, by a considerable distance, when deciding what level of exposure they are entitled to?

[Antlion]

Question: Why shouldn't the BBC or other broadcasters take into account the fact that UKIP are the largest UK party in the European Parliament, both by seats and by popular vote, by a considerable distance, when deciding what level of exposure they are entitled to?

There's no reason they shouldn't - but the fact that the European Parliament and MEPs have never been a deciding factor in their picking guests (outside EU election specials), and the fact that there's no reason why it should be, implies that that this is simply being used as an excuse to give more coverage to UKIP than is warranted based on its electoral failure in every British democratic institution. In fact, now I come to think of it, the small cadre of UKIP MEPs who appear on the Daily Politics, Newsnight and QT day in and day out are rarely (if ever) there to discuss issues or votes taking place in the European Parliament. The BBC is the British state broadcaster, not the European state broadcaster. The European Parliament is not its primary concern - in fact, we know that a minority of the electorate even bothered voting in the Euro elections. Despite what UKIP might tell you, Brussels does not make most of our laws.

By all means, BBC, feature UKIP MEPs as guests when discussing important votes and matters relating to the European Parliament. But how often do the activities of the European Parliament (and therefore the primary concern of MEPs) actually come up on these shows?

Edited February 7, 2016 by Antlion

[happysouth]

There have been 28 episodes of Question Time since 7th May 2015. Appearances by party:

Conservatives 28 (100%)

Labour 28 (100%)

UKIP 11 (39%)

SNP 11 (39%)

Lib Dem 7 (25%)

Green 2 (7%)

Plaid 1 (4%)

DUP 1 (4%)

Sinn Fein 1 (4%)

Women's Equality Party 1 (4%)

Does this strike anyone as particularly egregious? Be honest.

That seems fairly reasonable although I'd be interested to see what the stats were when the lib dems were the 3rd party at Westminster.

[Granny Danger]

Of course they are entitled to, but then they are open to criticism for promoting their small conveyor belt of UKIP MEPs (and one MP) daily.

That 4 million is spread across 64 million people. If we have a fucked up electoral system in the British state (and we do) it is not up to the British state broadcaster to make up for its shortcomings by giving parties to which it has awarded very little widespread coverage. UKIP are simply not a major party in any UK Parliament. It's for the people here to vote in a party that will change the system (rather than parties which are committed to retaining it, as both major parties are).

So we should wait until an unfair electoral system is changed before we give fair representation to political parties on Question Time? Very strange argument.

[Antlion]

So we should wait until an unfair electoral system is changed before we give fair representation to political parties on Question Time? Very strange argument.

UKIP do not get "fair" representation on the BBC - the get overexposure considering their utter failure to win comparable levels of representation in every British governmental institution. By the way, who is "we"? I have no say in who the BBC promotes.

[Ad Lib]

There's no reason they shouldn't - but the fact that the European Parliament and MEPs have never been a deciding factor in their picking guests (outside EU election specials)

Except it has. It just so happens that until recent years the election of members to the EU Parliament hasn't been significantly at variance with that of election to Westminster.

and the fact that there's no reason why it should be

There's plenty reasons why it should be.

1. The EU Parliament is responsible for a lot of law-making and policy objectives in our political system

2. Whether we should be members of the European Union and if so on what terms is a major political issue in our country

3. EU elections, even unlike devolved election or local elections, take place across the entire country at the same time, and affect everyone in the UK the same.

implies that that this is simply being used as an excuse to give more coverage to UKIP than is warranted based on its electoral failure in every British democratic institution.

But the elections to the European Parliament that UKIP won are British and democratic!

In fact, now I come to think of it, the small cadre of UKIP MEPs who appear on the Daily Politics, Newsnight and QT day in and day out are rarely (if ever) there to discuss issues or votes taking place in the European Parliament. The BBC is the British state broadcaster, not the European state broadcaster. The European Parliament is not its primary concern - in fact, we know that a minority of the electorate even bothered voting in the Euro elections. Despite what UKIP might tell you, Brussels does not make most of our laws.

This just means that you've decided that EU elections are unimportant. Of course UKIP are wrong about the reach of the EU and Council of Ministers, but it doesn't mean they do nothing. They have a significant impact on, among other things, farming and fisheries, structural funds for under-developed regions, climate change targets, consumer rights, EEA migration rules, the use of the European Arrest Warrant, all of which are issues that are and have been discussed at least in part during most instances where UKIP are invited to participate on BBC news and debate shows. None of these issues are trivial, and all of them have a substantial and discrete EU component to their politics.

By all means, BBC, feature UKIP MEPs as guests when discussing important votes and matters relating to the European Parliament. But how often do the activities of the European Parliament (and therefore the primary concern of MEPs) actually come up on these shows?

Quite often. See above. The point is decisions made in the European Parliament have an impact on domestic debate, which then plays out on these issues at Westminster, as they, among other things, give effect to Directives and CJEU decisions in domestic law. The BBC has actually made considerable efforts in the last couple of years to increase awareness of the specific activities of the EU Parliament, including for a while a dedicated slot on the Daily Politics to developments in Brussels in which they would invite even MEPs from other countries to debate issues and developments.

At the moment, the main substantive news relating to the European Union concerns Cameron's renegotiation. It should therefore be unsurprising that that is the subject matter of most of the contributions an anti-EU party is asked to make on a current affairs television show. The overriding questions shaping that renegotiation are migration and sovereignty, the two dominant themes of both the UKIP 2014 campaign and the main reasons most of the supporters that backed them.

Remember, they backed them both in the European elections and in the UK General Election. One in every eight voters supported them in the latter. They got almost as high a share of the vote in the 2014 EP elections as Labour did in the 2015 General Election. They might not have won seats in 2015, but it is entirely the right of the BBC to take into account levels of support in a more nuanced way than arbitrarily to select the composition of one specific legislature.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Ad Lib

[Ad Lib]

That seems fairly reasonable although I'd be interested to see what the stats were when the lib dems were the 3rd party at Westminster.

In government and in election years it was about 60-75% of Question Time panels. I haven't had a chance to compare it as far back as 2008 or 2009, but it's safe to say that UKIP have not, until after the 2015 General Election, got as much Question Time exposure as the Liberal Democrats used to get.