ICTJohnboy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 The attack was the result of disgusting prejudice against the LGBT community. Where that motivation came from is yet to be established as far as I'm aware. Whether it's a religious motivation or otherwise. The main issue being talked about should be gun control in the US as well as the attitude towards the LGBT community until (if) the motivation behind the bigotry is established. Exactly. Especially as it's just been revealed that the "bad guy" (as he's being described by the police) legally purchased his weapons within the past few days in Orlando. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooky Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Owen Jones' argument was spot-on, although I partially feel that he went about it in the wrong way. ''You don't understand because you're not gay'' was a silly thing to say. He also stormed off the set at a strange point in the discussion, when they were actually just about to read a quote from an LGBT spokesman. Fundamentally, however, Jones is correct. This was my thinking also, he'd have been far more within his rights to storm off a couple of minutes earlier! His "you don't understand because you're not gay" thing probably wasn't the best line to use to get the presenter onside, but I feel the points he was making were more than justified. Politically, I probably don't agree with Owen Jones on anything, but he was spot on. This seems to be a quite clear homophobia-driven attack. And as someone who is gay, it saddens me as gay nightclubs and bars are supposed to be where people can be themselves and don't need to run and hide from their sexuality, but feel safe about it. The United States is a strange nation in the sense that some parts of it are probably up there with the most gay friendly places in the world, but for other parts, the Foreign Office need to publish travel advice and warnings to LGBT people. Whilst attitudes towards LGBT people are no doubt moving in a positive direction, it's worrying that their are still people out there that regard it as perfectly acceptable to do things like this. It's times like this that I'm immensely thankful that both Scotland and the UK as a whole is probably one of the most tolerant nations there is. It seems absolutely staggering that someone who was recently under FBI investigation can just walk in and legally buy several weapons. f**k sake, America. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyerTon Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) I remember seeing this clip a couple of years ago. A BBC reporter buys an AR15 semi automatic rifle almost as easily as buying two litres of milk: Edited June 13, 2016 by FlyerTon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Probably a lot easier, since America still doesn't use the metric system. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I really don't have any issue with Owen Jones saying you don't understand because yer not gay because I don't understand. I can empathise, of course, but would never truly understand. I've never had to bite my lip or hide my sexuality amongst a group of people when they've been making gay jokes or wondered if it was safe to hold hands with the missus or had my lifestyle or morals judged because of my sexual orientation. I can empathise that it's frustrating/demeaning/frightening and so forth but I've never been in that situation. I can't understand. I can't even begin to comprehend how fucked up that would be.I think he was daft to walk out. He really should have kept at it. He's usually a bit more eloquent than that but he was clearly rattled. I genuinely thought he was going to smack her when she spouted that "gobby woman" line. I think he walked off because the presenter had cut him off from making his point and moved on and THEN went back to the previous page they were talking about to highlight one statement from an LGBT spokesperson. It was an obvious piece of tokenism. "See!? Look! A poof did say something! Get it up ye!"Can't get my head round people trying to frame the narrative on it being an attack on "western freedoms" or "everyone" etc. Isn't every terrorist attack? That wee redneck shooting up a black church was an attack on everyone. An attack on a Synagogue or Mosque is an attack on everyone. It goes without saying doesn't it? So why the need to point it out now it's happened to the LGBT community? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Gun control won't happen. Millions of American own guns without incident and they don't want to give them up. The majority of gun deaths in America is one of white guys committing suicide, cops shooting blacks, and blacks shooting each other in crime ridden hell holes like Detroit, Englewood Chicago and Oakland. No one cares about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 There's a vigil for the victims being held in George Square. Did we have vigil when the last car bomb blew some Afghans up in Kabul? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Probably a lot easier, since America still doesn't use the metric system. When I was in Florida years ago Pizza Hut were giving away liter(sic) bottles of Coke if your order was over $25 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 There's a vigil for the victims being held in George Square. Did we have vigil when the last car bomb blew some Afghans up in Kabul? Yes. Where were you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Gun control won't happen. Millions of American own guns without incident and they don't want to give them up. The majority of gun deaths in America is one of white guys committing suicide, cops shooting blacks, and blacks shooting each other in crime ridden hell holes like Detroit, Englewood Chicago and Oakland. No one cares about them. Almost. More white than black people are shot by cops in the USA. Suicide is indeed the biggest cause of firearm death, mostly white men. Black-on-black gun death is responsible for most black gun deaths, at a far greater rate than cops killing blacks. You're right in that noone care's much about these people. Edited June 13, 2016 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Yes. Where were you? Never got asked. Anyway, this has been labelled Islamic it's nothing of the kind, the guy has obviously hitched his homophones wagon to the ISIS cause and this suits everyone. ISIS get to claim responsibility and give the impression they are more powerful abroad than they are. The Americans can continue to bomb f**k out of Islamic countries and ignore the obvious problems closer to home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 FFS GlasgowEdinburgh's is on Wednesday. If yer no' fast yer last in the grief game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Never got asked. Anyway, this has been labelled Islamic it's nothing of the kind, the guy has obviously hitched his homophones wagon to the ISIS cause and this suits everyone. ISIS get to claim responsibility and give the impression they are more powerful abroad than they are. The Americans can continue to bomb f**k out of Islamic countries and ignore the obvious problems closer to home. Maybe he got his tubes in a twist over transgender folk using the gents loo, Adam marrying Adam and Eve marrying Eve - all the other stuff that's 'nothing to do with politics'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Maybe he got his tubes in a twist over transgender folk using the gents loo, Adam marrying Adam and Eve marrying Eve - all the other stuff that's 'nothing to do with politics'. Or even Adam marrying Yves 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 It's both. Acceptance of homosexuality is a major part of western civilisation which ISIS sympathisers would be against. It's quite possible that I'd missed something at that point last night, but aside from the line from his dad about having seen two guys kissing and being disgusted by it there was little information about the shooter's motivations. No notes, no news of information or literature in his home. Just that he had phoned the police and pledged allegiance to ISIS. Nothing about the specific location he was going to target or why. I've no doubt it being a gay club was a reason for it being targeted, but Jones' hysterical YOU HAVE TO CALL IT HOMOPHOBIC performance is on the same level as Trump's slavering about Obama not calling it radical Islam hours after it happening for creating a divided sense of panic among a society which will universally condemn it regardless. Yep. You have to watch the context of the interview. The two arseholes were dismissing the homophobic element and were pushing this more into the bataclan category of 'random Islamic terrorist atrocity'. Jones was trying to make a simple point about this being homophobic terrorism - a clear attack on gay people. He was clearly emotional and was sitting there stewing. Like others have said he left at a strange time, but it's understandable when you see the tension of the whole interview. Comparing his reaction to this atrocity with that of Donald trump is fairly disgusting. Have a word. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 An attack on gay men indeed. Yet still, utter desperation from some corners to deflect from the shooter being Muslim and doing it under the flag of ISIS and instead point fingers at Donald Trump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Never got asked. Anyway, this has been labelled Islamic it's nothing of the kind, the guy has obviously hitched his homophones wagon to the ISIS cause and this suits everyone. ISIS get to claim responsibility and give the impression they are more powerful abroad than they are. The Americans can continue to bomb f**k out of Islamic countries and ignore the obvious problems closer to home. ? But otherwise good post. If they can externalise this and blame somewhere foreign and bomb-able they will. Far more attractive an option than addressing prejudice and access to military grade firearms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 An attack on gay men indeed. Yet still, utter desperation from some corners to deflect from the shooter being Muslim and doing it under the flag of ISIS and instead point fingers at Donald Trump Aboslutely no one is doing that ya clown shoe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 ? But otherwise good post. If they can externalise this and blame somewhere foreign and bomb-able they will. Far more attractive an option than addressing prejudice and access to military grade firearms. Aye right, I'll give you that one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Aboslutely no one is doing that ya clown shoe The whole conversation is tiptoeing around it ya poopy pants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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