Eednud Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1976 was the last occasion games were held on Christmas Day (namely Clydebank-St Mirren and Alloa-Cowdenbeath)... and also the last occasion a game was played on Christmas Eve when it wasn't a Saturday (namely Hibs-Ayr: which was a Friday). Much-delayed replays in the Scottish Cup were played on midweek on Christmas Day in 1973 (Clydebank-East Stirlingshire: they'd drawn the day prior i.e. Christmas Eve!) and 1969 (St Cuthbert Wanderers-Stranraer) but the last league games held on Christmas Day when it wasn't a Saturday were 1957 (Celtic-QotS and Dundee-Killie). Last full league card was 1971, the last time it fell on a Saturday before 1976. There was never a full midweek card - only ever odd games. Add Montrose 0 Dundee 1 (Purdie) Att: 3,500 to your 1976 list according to They Wore The Dark Blue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 14 hours ago, lanky_ffc said: Who the f**k wants to go to the football on Xmas day? This. Seriously, is there anyone here that would see that as a good thing and attend regularly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Eednud - it was holiday Monday. Here's what I think is a comprehensive list of first-class games played on Christmas Day when it wasn't a Saturday. Note the Third Lanark v Dundee:1890-1891 - X 1893-1896 - X 1899-1903 - X 1905 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1906 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1907 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1908 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1911 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1912 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1913 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1914 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1916 - X 1917 - X 1918 - X 1919 - Third Lanark v Dundee ... Albion Rovers v St Mirren 1922 - Third Lanark v Dundee 1923 - Third Lanark v Dundee (abd) 1924 - Third Lanark v Dundee ... Dundee Utd v Stenhousemuir ... St Johnstone v Queen's Park 1925 - Clyde v Third Lanark 1928 - Third Lanark v Dundee ... Clyde v Queen's Park ... Hearts v St Mirren 1929 - Third Lanark v Clydebank ... Partick v Queen's Park ... St Johnstone v Dundee 1930 - Morton v St Mirren ... Partick v Motherwell ... Queen's Park v Ayr ... St Johnstone v Brechin 1931 - Edinburgh City v Dumbarton 1933 - Edinburgh City v East Fife ... Hearts v Airdrie ... Queen's Park v Celtic 1934 - Edinburgh City v St Bernard's ... Celtic v Queen's Park ... Rangers v Falkirk 1935 - X 1936 - Partick v St Mirren 1939 - X 1940 - X 1941 - X 1942 - X 1944 - X 1945 - X 1946 - Third Lanark v Clyde ... Celtic v Queen's Park 1947 - Third Lanark v Aberdeen ... Alloa v Hamilton ... Celtic v Hearts ... Cowdenbeath v Stenhousemuir ... Dundee v Rangers 1950 - Hibs v Hearts (C Division) 1951 - Partick v Dundee ... Queen's Park v Dunfermline ... Rangers v East Stirlingshire (C Division) ... Hearts v Hibs (C Division) 1952 - Third Lanark v Partick ... Hearts v Hibs (C Division) 1953 - Hibs v Hearts (C Division) ... Partick v Rangers (C Division) 1956 - Berwick v Dundee Utd ... Partick v Raith ... Queen's Park v Ayr 1957 - Celtic v Queen of the South ... Dundee v Kilmarnock 1958-1959 - X 1961-1964 - X 1967-1968 - X 1969 - St Cuthbert Wanderers v Stranraer (Scottish Cup replay) 1970 - X 1972 - X 1973 - Clydebank v East Stirlingshire (Scottish Cup replay) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Third Lanark certainly liked a home game on Dec 25. 18 games, 17 at home and the only away game a couple of miles away at Shawfield! That fixture v Dundee is weird. Why have them all in Glasgow? You'd think if the teams agreed to setting up a regular meeting on Christmas Day for whatever reason they would have had it in Dundee on alternative years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastie_12 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 This. Seriously, is there anyone here that would see that as a good thing and attend regularly? Don't think it's something I'd attend regularly, more likely just once a year or something [emoji6] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csteinle Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 37 minutes ago, blastie_12 said: Don't think it's something I'd attend regularly, more likely just once a year or something Once a year is pretty regular. Infrequent maybe, but regular. Edited December 21, 2016 by csteinle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Who the f**k wants to go to the football on Xmas day? [emoji38] You seen what's on telly xmas day? Plus a whole day with my family.....shudders... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry O'Driscoll Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 hours ago, forameus said: This. Seriously, is there anyone here that would see that as a good thing and attend regularly? Too right. Xmas is horrendous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 In all seriousness I think it would go down pretty badly. Politically and socially there would be a lot of opposition to impinging on what has gradually become a day for families and rest. Logistically there is no public transport and presumably it's a day when few police are on duty in order to allow for busier days surrounding (most notably New Year). Legally there are the issues with people not being required to work. Financially you'd presumably have to pay through the nose for agency stewards, food concession staff, and so on. I wouldn't want it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 hour ago, 7-2 said: Third Lanark certainly liked a home game on Dec 25. 18 games, 17 at home and the only away game a couple of miles away at Shawfield! That fixture v Dundee is weird. Why have them all in Glasgow? You'd think if the teams agreed to setting up a regular meeting on Christmas Day for whatever reason they would have had it in Dundee on alternative years. My own thinking is that it was an opportunity for the smaller Glasgow clubs to get a big gate? It's too much of a coincidence that so many are Thirds, Partick or Queen's Park games - and you could say the same with Edinburgh City in the capital. As you allude the puzzle is why Dundee were always prepared to come down for it, to the extent it obviously became a tradition. In addition when Christmas fell on a Saturday they also hosted Dundee in 1909 and when it fell on a Sunday they hosted Dundee on Boxing Day Monday in 1904, 1910 and 1932. Anyone? As I said I've seen a claim that Thirds had a Jewish element to their support - or rather were the Glasgow club that Jews supported at least more notably than others - but the number in question surely can't in itself have been enough to justify playing on Christmas Day, and in any case it was not a general holiday for Protestant Catholic or Jewish workers anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 If it was to maximise the gate you'd think those Glasgow teams would have just played each other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 By 1906 it was already being described as "the Dundee club's annual Christmas Day visit to Cathkin Park". I can't find any references to why it started. Have to rely on Dundee fans... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 19 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: Not old enough to have seen Third Lanark v Dundee on Christmas Day. It is true though - from the start of league football in 1890 to 1925 there were only 15 midweek Christmas Day games and no fewer than 12 of these were Third Lanark v Dundee... It was clearly deliberately arranged. I'm sceptical of it, but I've seen a theory suggesting it was down to the Jews. Alright Malky? It is a fascinatingly absurd pattern. It's really hard to see what was in such an arrangement for Dundee, beyond an admirable willingness to uphold what had become a tradition. I take it that fixtures could be sort of 'fixed' in this way back then? Was there no sense of having halves of sequences of fixtures which more or less reversed, to provide a league season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 http://www.scotlandsfootballers.com/index_007.htm There's yer answer lads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 49 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: http://www.scotlandsfootballers.com/index_007.htm There's yer answer lads. Very interesting, but it still leaves a certain mystery as to why the fixture had appeal for Dundee. It does pretty effectively dismantle the Jewish theory though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 5 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: In all seriousness I think it would go down pretty badly. Politically and socially there would be a lot of opposition to impinging on what has gradually become a day for families and rest. Logistically there is no public transport and presumably it's a day when few police are on duty in order to allow for busier days surrounding (most notably New Year). Legally there are the issues with people not being required to work. Financially you'd presumably have to pay through the nose for agency stewards, food concession staff, and so on. I wouldn't want it. As you say HJ the cost of staging a game on Christmas Day would be too much plus I would hate to think what crowds would be. It may have been alright back in the day when it wasn't a public holiday but not now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 15 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Very interesting, but it still leaves a certain mystery as to why the fixture had appeal for Dundee. It does pretty effectively dismantle the Jewish theory though. Remember gates were shared in those days, so I suppose if it got a bumper crowd then they benefited. Perhaps the Dundee public wasn't expected to turn-out like Glasgow's did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 5 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: In all seriousness I think it would go down pretty badly. Politically and socially there would be a lot of opposition to impinging on what has gradually become a day for families and rest. Logistically there is no public transport and presumably it's a day when few police are on duty in order to allow for busier days surrounding (most notably New Year). Legally there are the issues with people not being required to work. Financially you'd presumably have to pay through the nose for agency stewards, food concession staff, and so on. I wouldn't want it. There's no law against working on Christmas Day per se - the law prevents large stores over a certain square footage from opening However, I suspect that any attempt to schedule a match for Christmas Day would quickly see it legally banned. Probably not directly (FIFA would probably object) but there would be plenty of ways to indirectly ban it via employment law. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, HibeeJibee said: Remember gates were shared in those days, so I suppose if it got a bumper crowd then they benefited. Perhaps the Dundee public wasn't expected to turn-out like Glasgow's did. Yes, I suppose so. It just seems odd that two clubs from a long way apart got locked in such a run. It must have suited them. One of those nice quirks. When did fixtures start getting decided by some sort of random process for league games? They used to speak of 'the computer', but I'd imagine the games were sorted randomly before the advent of such technology. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 There was a "fixture list" from the early years of league football - before 1900 as I recall. However there was, as now, a degree of pre-selection for things like derbies (and also weeks when the Glasgow clubs insisted on cancelling their games to play Glasgow Cup ties: to everyone else's chagrin). During the 1930s an exceedingly odd policy was that clubs who met on Matchday #1 met again on Matchday #3 (midweek), and clubs who met on Matchday #2 met again on Matchday #7 (midweek)... I assume this was because everyone opened HA or AH, and therefore it ensured everyone had 1 home & 1 away game to fulfil midweek without making the exercise even more complicated. However it meant meeting 2 teams twice in the opening 4.5 weeks, and since the leagues only played 2x you wouldn't see them for the rest of the season. I've looked up Christmas Day games in Dundee and there were very few examples - only 14 in all of history AFAICS. I'll post the list up below. Perhaps it was less of a holiday than in Glasgow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.