Players who routinely get selected despite not proving their worth.

[Skyline Drifter]

I'm calling for a complete revamp in the whole thing. He's been fannying about in America for a while and has now moved to Hull, he isn't in the squad on merit. He's played 15 games this year. We've stuck with guys like him for years and fail time after time. Surely something different is worth a go?

It's radical, but pick players who are playing well for their teams. Even if they happen to be SPL players. I hate this culture of picking the same group of pish with priority going to anyone in England regardless of their form/ability.

Have you watched a single Scotland game in the last year or so. You cannot possibly have done and then claim Maloney isn't in the squad on merit. I'll repeat, he's been our best player bar none in the last year.

As an aside, though, I was completely unaware he'd moved to Hull a fortnight ago! I thought he was still with Chicago.

[Jambomo]

Agree, Maloney has played well for Scotland recently and deserves his place.

One aspect of picking players who are playing in England is that they will have better fitness levels than those in Scotland. I think that in games like last night where we are chasing and running about, we needed the better fitness.

Why SPL players can't be fitter is a difference question but I believe players going down there have commented on the step up in training levels.

That's not to say English players should be in purely on that but it might be a factor in Strachan's thinking.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Agree, Maloney has played well for Scotland recently and deserves his place.

One aspect of picking players who are playing in England is that they will have better fitness levels than those in Scotland. I think that in games like last night where we are chasing and running about, we needed the better fitness.

Why SPL players can't be fitter is a difference question but I believe players going down there have commented on the step up in training levels.

That's not to say English players should be in purely on that but it might be a factor in Strachan's thinking.

There is a very low level of fitness in the squad though, they were breathing out their arses last night.

So many of the English based players use playing for Scotland in an attempt to get game time in trying to get into their club time.

The likes of Anya and Martin are not considered fit enough to play 90minutes for their clubs, don't think Martin has played at all.

Yet they are considered fit enough for Scotland

[thisGRAEME]

We need to start blooding young players who are in form (and there are a few about) or we are going to end up in the Craig Brown situation where the next manager inherits a team full of shite who are well past it and we will go through another Vogts period of capping any c**t to find a decent player.

I'd have a lot of the current 21s getting regular game time now. What's the worst that can happen? We fail to qualify for yet another tournament?

You're talking like they're all finished, Greer aside? They're fine.

And go on then, I'll play along, which of the current under-21 side would've improved the team last night?

[Mr Romanov]

You're talking like they're all finished, Greer aside? They're fine.

And go on then, I'll play along, which of the current under-21 side would've improved the team last night?

They're fine for what? Failure?

I'm looking at the bigger picture and that is we've more than likely failed to qualify once more with the same group of players. We have talented young players who won't see any action for Scotland until they are 25+. It is not a matter of individual players, it's about blooding young talent and getting them a head start at national level so we can maybe mould a side that can compete.

These guys are fine for another poor campaign come the world cup though. Fine.

[Mr Romanov]

Have you watched a single Scotland game in the last year or so. You cannot possibly have done and then claim Maloney isn't in the squad on merit. I'll repeat, he's been our best player bar none in the last year.

As an aside, though, I was completely unaware he'd moved to Hull a fortnight ago! I thought he was still with Chicago.

You are missing the point.

[Lyle Lanley]

We need to start blooding young players who are in form (and there are a few about) or we are going to end up in the Craig Brown situation where the next manager inherits a team full of shite who are well past it and we will go through another Vogts period of capping any c**t to find a decent player.

I'd have a lot of the current 21s getting regular game time now. What's the worst that can happen? We fail to qualify for yet another tournament?

Or we can stick with Maloney, Fletcher and all that shit and experience the same failure every single time. Yes, lets go with that.

This. The likes of McLean, Greame Shinnie, Callum Paterson, Mackay-Steven and many other youngsters should be in the squad. Shite like Forrest etc can f**k off.

[thisGRAEME]

They're fine for what? Failure?

I'm looking at the bigger picture and that is we've more than likely failed to qualify once more with the same group of players. We have talented young players who won't see any action for Scotland until they are 25+. It is not a matter of individual players, it's about blooding young talent and getting them a head start at national level so we can maybe mould a side that can compete.

These guys are fine for another poor campaign come the world cup though. Fine.

What bigger picture? We're not building for the next qualifying tournament, we're not out of this one? You pick a team to win games. Qualifying is the bigger picture. Winning games is the bigger picture.

This. The likes of McLean, Greame Shinnie, Callum Paterson, Mackay-Steven and many other youngsters should be in the squad. Shite like Forrest etc can f**k off.

Learn how to spell Graeme, please, for the love of all that is good in the world.

Additionally, Mackay-Steven is older than Forrest and Shinnie is older than Robertson, McLean is the same age, and not as good as Armstrong (who you'd imagine would have been involved). #youngsters

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Lets not forget some of this squad will have five campaign failures on their cvs at the conclusion of this.

If Strachan stays they will be in their usual places at the start of the wc campaign with a good chance of making it six

[Skyline Drifter]

You are missing the point.

I'm not missing the point. I get the point, it's just that the point is downright wrong.

[Craig McCulloch Burley]

Scotland should drop right full back Hutton and Whittaker than Scotland would call up full back Ziggy Gordon or David Gray and Paul McGinn

[Skyline Drifter]

Scotland should drop right full back Hutton and Whittaker than Scotland would call up full back Ziggy Gordon or David Gray and Paul McGinn

No, they shouldn't.

[thisGRAEME]

David Gray

My oh my.

[williemillersmoustache]

An enjoyable read:

Domestic Hated - Gordon Strachan’s distrust of the SPFL harms the future of Scotland

Losing to Georgia and Germany has a way of making the glass suddenly seem half empty. Scotland sit after those two games with a best possible finish of third in the group - a finish that is totally reliant on beating Poland at Hampden. No easy task. Then beating Gibraltar away - that should be easy, but this is Scotland we’re talking about. Do both, and then hope Germany do us a favour by not losing to Ireland, and Scotland get to the playoffs where, lying in wait, will be sides like Russia, Ukraine, Croatia and the Dutch because UEFA will seed it to try to get the big sides through.

So put the thoughts of a French holiday out of your minds next year - Scotland won’t be there. In the unlikely event that Scotland don’t make a complete arse of it against Poland vs the best striker in the world, they will run up against a side in the playoffs who will finish their hopes off. I would like to be proven wrong, but even if you offered me 20/1 on Scotland qualifying, I’d laugh at you.

So now we’ve established that we are now working towards 2018, not 2016, we have to look at the tools we have to do that and my interest was particularly piqued by a quote I read from Gordon Strachan that simply worried me.

On Chris Martin being preferred to Leigh Griffiths: “I think his scoring record is as good as anybody’s over the last two years and in a more competitive league as well.”

Let’s just clarify that - our national manager doesn’t think our domestic league is good enough to trust players coming through it and, instead, would rather play bang average strikers from the English Championship, which is an absolute dog of a league owing to the physicality of the play, the kick and rush football that prevails in it and the sheer amount of football they play. That is no disrespect to Martin, who was decent in his ten minute cameo vs Germany, but it is wrong to be sending the message to players that if you want international recognition, you should leave Scotland.

In reality, what the side actually needs is more SPFL input because, if we are looking at the side and at these last two games with 2018 in mind, we have to accept that there are players in the Scotland side whose international careers are, put simply, done.

To do a quick list, Allan McGregor (as not picked so taking a spot for a younger player), Charlie Mulgrew (hopeless), Gordon Greer (34), Steven Whittaker (Steven Whittaker), Shaun Maloney (32), Scott Brown (potentially, his legs have gone), Darren Fletcher (only as not playing so taking up a spot) and Steven Fletcher.

None of those choices should be especially controversial. Maloney currently still adds value to the side, but at 35 in 2018, he will be well past his sell by date. Scott Brown is the most controversial of the lot but, at 30 and with his injury record, his body looks to be catching up with him to a stage where he either needs a long rest or a big surgery, both of which at his stage of the career would be hard to recover from - his body can no longer do what his fire wants him to and, for him, that is the end.

For almost every player in that list, we can point to a more than adequate domestically based replacement. Swap out McGregor and you’d bring in Scott Bain, who has consistently impressed for Dundee. For Mulgrew and Greer, you’d swap in the Aberdeen duo of Graeme Shinnie (the SPFL’s outstanding left back) and Mark Reynolds. For Whittaker, Callum Paterson. For Brown, Maloney and Darren Fletcher, you’ve Stuart Armstrong, Kenny McLean and Ryan Jack. Only Steven Fletcher is a harder nut to crack, if only because of the dearth of Scottish strikers in general, but you would still have a nice choice of the ever-prolific Jordan Rhodes, Stevie May, the still improving Greg Stewart or even going to the U21s for a Ryan Gauld or a Ryan Fraser.

The games vs Poland and Gibraltar are nothing games for Scotland now. While qualification isn’t beyond the realms of possibility, it is beyond the realms of probability. These last two games are the perfect opportunity for Strachan to do the right thing by the team and bring in the players who will be regulars in the 2018 and 2020 campaigns and get them up to speed with International football in a fairly low pressure, low expectation environment so they aren’t thrown in the deep end when they are brought in come World Cup qualification time because Scotland’s World Cup group is taxing but by no means overly difficult.

Should he choose not to do so, then it would be essential to hold a B international fixture against a not entirely useless side (A Baltic side or someone like that) with players specifically either under 25 or playing in the SPFL only allowed in the side so Strachan can take a good look at the players who should be taking over from the leftovers from Levein’s side.

There will, of course, be an inquiry into Strachan himself. Certainly, he got things wrong against Georgia and there are reservations as to his team selections (Charlie Mulgrew and Steven Fletcher especially) but, for the time being, it’s difficult to come up with a compelling reason as to why he wouldn’t be allowed to continue on in his role - he gets a lot out of players who, if we’re entirely honest, aren’t superstars - but this transitional job in getting the next generation of talent into the side while also ushering out the last generation is the biggest task he has faced. It’s a task he did well at Celtic, being pretty ruthless in dispensing with some players, and he has to show that steel again to start the rebuilding job now rather than waiting until after the Poland and Gibraltar games with nothing to show for it and nothing gained by either game.

If Scotland are to achieve the very achievable target of the playoffs or better in qualification for 2018, Strachan must dismiss any notion of 2016 now. Pick for the future now, accept any result vs Poland as a bonus and then keep the faith through the next qualifying campaign - that’s the route to Russia. If we are saying “Privet Rossiya” in 2018, no-one will care if we say “Au Revoir, France” in 2015.

- See more at: http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/128634369546/domestic-hated-gordon-strachans-distrust-of-the#sthash.FZvYUSJC.dpuf

[Mr Romanov]

Totally agree with that article. Every word of it.

Still, we are 'fine' as it is.

[williemillersmoustache]

If there was any realistic possibility of qualifying i'd be tempted with sticking with it. But there really isn't. As well as this group have done, and they have done well how many are going to be any use for the Russia qualifiers?

[Poet of the Macabre]

It's mainly due to the fact that he does f**k all and gets in based on the fact that he used to be good 5-7 years ago.

Liam Palmer, Paul Caddis I'd even take Ziggy Gordon tbh.

Basically anyone playing fairly well, and actually playing even semi-regularly at club level.

His performance against Georgia was fucking pathetic and he has offered nothing for the vast majority of qualifying, it is, at the very least, worth giving somebody else a chance.

You're an absolute zoomer wee man

Ziggy Gordon FFS.

[Dunning1874]

There's no chance Mulgrew should be getting chucked. Strachan wants shot for playing him at left back which is comfortably his worst position, but he's had some terrific games in holding midfield.

More to the point, the suggestion that Strachan should be using the Poland game as an opportunity to blood youngsters is absolutely preposterous. If youngsters are good enough he should of course be picking them and he clearly has a touch of Craig Brown about him in his view of younger players - his distrust of Andy Robertson when he's our best defender by a couple of trillion lightyears is absolutely infuriating - but the suggestion that it's a good idea for the manager to chuck some youngsters in for the sake of it when we're in a must-win qualifier is just ridiculous. He should be dropping Steven Fletcher for being shite, not to give Greg Stewart a chance.

He absolutely has to pick the best team available. By all means give the likes of Jack and Gauld their debuts against Gibraltar if it's mathematically over, but Callum Paterson against Poland, fucking hell.

[Mr Romanov]

It would be pointless to chuck them in against Poland. The issue there is it should have been done ages ago. We should have talented young guys sitting on 15/20 caps ready to come in and change our fortunes.

Instead we're depending on 32 year old Shaun Maloney and 4 goals in 23 hero Steven Fletcher.

[Skyline Drifter]

In reality, what the side actually needs is more SPFL input because, if we are looking at the side and at these last two games with 2018 in mind, we have to accept that there are players in the Scotland side whose international careers are, put simply, done.

The games vs Poland and Gibraltar are nothing games for Scotland now. While qualification isn’t beyond the realms of possibility, it is beyond the realms of probability. These last two games are the perfect opportunity for Strachan to do the right thing by the team and bring in the players who will be regulars in the 2018 and 2020 campaigns and get them up to speed with International football in a fairly low pressure, low expectation environment so they aren’t thrown in the deep end when they are brought in come World Cup qualification time because Scotland’s World Cup group is taxing but by no means overly difficult.

It's hard to take this article especially seriously with these two conclusions being the mainstay for it.

Apparently qualification is now beyond the realms of probability. So presuming nobody is saying we should expect Ireland to beat Germany that's effectively saying it's beyond the realms of probability that we can beat a Polish side at Hampden when we've beaten and drawn with them away from home within the past two years. Lewandowski isn't the best striker in the world either unless Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic and Suarez have all left the planet when I wasn't looking.

And the wholly spurious conclusion that we need more SPFL players in the side without any actual evidence for it is a nonsense.