Players who routinely get selected despite not proving their worth.

[RobbieD]

Mulgrew was terrible last night also and I can't understand why Wallace doesn't get in the squad.

Really mate? You can't understand why a player who is now in this 4th season outside of the top league in Scotland can't get in the squad. A player who threw away an international career to play lower league football.

Really?

[Alan Stubbs]

I broadly agree that there's little point in persisting with the tried and failed but Armstrong and Paterson are pretty much the only players mentioned that I'd like to see Scotland take a gamble on*. Haven't seen him as much as many on here but I really like the look of Ryan Jack too. Those three I can imagine having proper careers. GMS? f**k that.

*not saying I would've chucked them in on Friday or anything. Worth considering for the next campaign certainly.

[Deeboy]

I don't know what the answer is but it isn't him! He has been playing against awful opposition for the last 3 years, Stepping up to play against Muller/Ozil and the like would have been a disaster.

Pish. We regularly called up Maloney & Miller when they were playing in the MLS. Mulgrews been playing against piles from being sat on the bench, at least Wallace has been playing.

[#Gary]

Wallace isn't selected because Robertson, Whittaker, Forsyth, Bardsley and Shinnie are all better than him. That doesn't really answer why Mulgrew played there though, that's on Strachan.

[GTG_03]

Pish. We regularly called up Maloney & Miller when they were playing in the MLS. Mulgrews been playing against piles from being sat on the bench, at least Wallace has been playing.

I wouldn't have had Mulgrew at left back either. Neither do I think Miller was worthy of a call up and Maloney was in Chicago for all of 5 minutes. Wallace is great going forward but is poor defensively, even against bang average championship teams he gets caught out way up the park and can be seen doing a terminator style sprint desperately trying to get back into position. He was shown up against Motherwell FFS.

[Savage Henry]

If Wallace was in the top flight he'd be in ahead of Forsyth for that all important third left back role.

Or perhaps he wouldn't, if that's another of Strachan's myriad blindspots.

But either way, it's like arguing whether Samson or Gilks should be the fourth keeper. It's not really of any relevance to anything.

The players selected for the starting XI aren't really that controversial, useless James Forrest aside. Marshall had a bit of a mare against Germany and I suspect Gordon may get the gloves next time out, but Strachan's constructed a squad whereby his choices to change things are very limited.

[10menwent2mow]

Maloney has flattered to deceive for years but he has been head and shoulders our best player in the current campaign. Calling for his early departure now is ridiculous and undermines your point.

It's not an early departure though. He'll be 33 1/2 by the time the next campaign starts and 35 by the World Cup Finals.

This is where a bit of forward planning is required. Even Brown will be 31 by the start of the next campaign and 33 by the finals.

In my opinion we should be using the World Cup quals to blood youngsters to have a right go at qualifying for the next Euros. Folk will say qualification for Russia is achievable with the group we have but if we're struggling to be in the top 23 in Europe in this qualifying I can't see the same players suddenly being good enough to be in the top 13.

Eta. Hadn't read the article that WlliesTash posted but it's 100% spot on except I'd go as far as to suggest that qualifying for Euro 2020 should be the long term aim

[thisGRAEME]

In my opinion we should be using the World Cup quals to blood youngsters to have a right go at qualifying for the next Euros. Folk will say qualification for Russia is achievable with the group we have but if we're struggling to be in the top 23 in Europe in this qualifying I can't see the same players suddenly being good enough to be in the top 13.

Eta. Hadn't read the article that WlliesTash posted but it's 100% spot on except I'd go as far as to suggest that qualifying for Euro 2020 should be the long term aim

This has problems, though. 'Building for the next campaign' has a solid theory behind it, but if that includes getting scudded up and down from time to time in order to 'develop' a team costs us ranking points, which chucks us further down the qualifying pots, which means it takes longer for teams to qualify...

Pick a team to win.

[Skyline Drifter]

It's not an early departure though. He'll be 33 1/2 by the time the next campaign starts and 35 by the World Cup Finals.

This is where a bit of forward planning is required. Even Brown will be 31 by the start of the next campaign and 33 by the finals.

In my opinion we should be using the World Cup quals to blood youngsters to have a right go at qualifying for the next Euros. Folk will say qualification for Russia is achievable with the group we have but if we're struggling to be in the top 23 in Europe in this qualifying I can't see the same players suddenly being good enough to be in the top 13.

Eta. Hadn't read the article that WlliesTash posted but it's 100% spot on except I'd go as far as to suggest that qualifying for Euro 2020 should be the long term aim

It is. He's not suggesting we drop Maloney for the next campaign, he's suggesting we leave him out now. When he's been our best player in the campaign by miles and has been responsible for nearly every goal that wasn't scored against Gibraltar.

Taken to it's logical extension where are you drawing your forward planning line? Should we also ignore the guys who are 21-24 because we may as well blood the u18's now! It's a ludicrous approach which will never see you get anywhere while you plan for the day that never comes. You play your strongest eleven for every game, period. If you are good enough you are old enough but if you are good enough you are also young enough. Frankly I don't care if a group of 30 somethings qualifies us for the next World Cup and are then too old to actually play in it. If they are willing to contribute to qualifying and still better than those below then play them. People have won world cups before with 35 year olds in their squad. The idea that it's somehow necessary to bin people who are still top contributors is a nonsense.

[MarkoRaj]

It is. He's not suggesting we drop Maloney for the next campaign, he's suggesting we leave him out now. When he's been our best player in the campaign by miles and has been responsible for nearly every goal that wasn't scored against Gibraltar.

Taken to it's logical extension where are you drawing your forward planning line? Should we also ignore the guys who are 21-24 because we may as well blood the u18's now! It's a ludicrous approach which will never see you get anywhere while you plan for the day that never comes. You play your strongest eleven for every game, period. If you are good enough you are old enough but if you are good enough you are also young enough. Frankly I don't care if a group of 30 somethings qualifies us for the next World Cup and are then too old to actually play in it. If they are willing to contribute to qualifying and still better than those below then play them. People have won world cups before with 35 year olds in their squad. The idea that it's somehow necessary to bin people who are still top contributors is a nonsense.

This.

[54_and_counting]

Wallace isn't selected because Robertson, Whittaker, Forsyth, Bardsley and Shinnie are all better than him. That doesn't really answer why Mulgrew played there though, that's on Strachan.

whittaker, bardsley being both predominately right back cant get a game in front of alan hutton who has been passed around clubs like a scud magazine in recent years

robertson is a given as first choice left back, but after that i think the position is up for grabs as imo there is nothing between the rest of them, shinnie has only made 2 scotland u21 appearances so his experience at this level is barely noticable

[~~~]

Does Bardsley ever get at club level these days?

[DigOutYourSoul]

He's started 13 games since January.

This season, however, his only minutes have come against Luton in the League Cup and will most likely only play if Glen Johnson gets injured.

[Mr Romanov]

This has problems, though. 'Building for the next campaign' has a solid theory behind it, but if that includes getting scudded up and down from time to time in order to 'develop' a team costs us ranking points, which chucks us further down the qualifying pots, which means it takes longer for teams to qualify...

Pick a team to win.

It will include getting 'scudded up and down' because Levein, and particularly Strachan, have neglected blooding new players and stuck with the same old shit. If we had done it properly and introduced players at a young age when they shown potential/good form, I'm sure we could still have achieved the mediocre campaign we have had and been more optimistic about the next one.

The team against Qatar for example

• 01 Marshall
• 02 Anya
• 04 Greer
• 05 Mulgrew
• 03 Forsyth
• 08 Brown
• 10 McArthur
• 11 Ritchie
• 06 Maloney
• 07 Forrest
• 09 Naismith

What is the point?

Now we'll go into the next campaign struggling for players to take us to the next level and a group of 20-25 year olds who have no experience and aren't ready to be thrown in.

This will be repeated numerous times as it has been for years.

[DigOutYourSoul]

It will include getting 'scudded up and down' because Levein, and particularly Strachan, have neglected blooding new players and stuck with the same old shit. If we had done it properly and introduced players at a young age when they shown potential/good form, I'm sure we could still have achieved the mediocre campaign we have had and been more optimistic about the next one.

The team against Qatar for example

• 01 Marshall
• 02 Anya
• 04 Greer
• 05 Mulgrew
• 03 Forsyth
• 08 Brown
• 10 McArthur
• 11 Ritchie
• 06 Maloney
• 07 Forrest
• 09 Naismith

What is the point?

Now we'll go into the next campaign struggling for players to take us to the next level and a group of 20-25 year olds who have no experience and aren't ready to be thrown in.

This will be repeated numerous times as it has been for years.

Agree with you here on the point around friendlies like this. They are a perfect opportunity to blood players like Armstrong, Wilson, Robertson, Phillips, Russell, Fraser, Jack etc into the Scotland senior set up and get them experience. Giving players like Greer, Mulgrew, Forrest Brown and Maloney game time in these games achieves absolutely nothing at all.

[The Grass Is Greener.]

Wilson?

[troopio]

It should be the Management team going first before any players.

[10menwent2mow]

Or we just stick with the same team as this campaign and then have the same discussion in two years time about players that are two years older. Who knows. If we blood young guys they might not get scudded all over the place, they might just over perform. Or. We could stick with Maloney, Whittaker, Hutton, Mulgrew, Brown, Morrison, Fletcher (D and S) etc etc etc.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that these guys have let the jersey down time and again but they have proven themselves incapable of getting us to a major finals and sitting about with our thumb up our arse hoping everyone else gets worse isn't really a forward thinking solution.

We've not qualified for a tournament for 18 (maybe going to be 20 years) so the same approach is clearly not working.

Try sonething different. If we don't qualify then what's the difference from before. If we lose ranking points then yeah we might go backwards but we need to aspire to something better than glorious failure.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Or we just stick with the same team as this campaign and then have the same discussion in two years time about players that are two years older. Who knows. If we blood young guys they might not get scudded all over the place, they might just over perform. Or. We could stick with Maloney, Whittaker, Hutton, Mulgrew, Brown, Morrison, Fletcher (D and S) etc etc etc.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that these guys have let the jersey down time and again but they have proven themselves incapable of getting us to a major finals and sitting about with our thumb up our arse hoping everyone else gets worse isn't really a forward thinking solution.

We've not qualified for a tournament for 18 (maybe going to be 20 years) so the same approach is clearly not working.

Try sonething different. If we don't qualify then what's the difference from before. If we lose ranking points then yeah we might go backwards but we need to aspire to something better than glorious failure.

Exactly some of these names will have fivevtournament failures on their cvs now, but if nothing changes they will be in the same place starting next autumn to make it six

[thisGRAEME]

It will include getting 'scudded up and down' because Levein, and particularly Strachan, have neglected blooding new players and stuck with the same old shit. If we had done it properly and introduced players at a young age when they shown potential/good form, I'm sure we could still have achieved the mediocre campaign we have had and been more optimistic about the next one.

The team against Qatar for example

• 01 Marshall
• 02 Anya
• 04 Greer
• 05 Mulgrew
• 03 Forsyth
• 08 Brown
• 10 McArthur
• 11 Ritchie
• 06 Maloney
• 07 Forrest
• 09 Naismith

What is the point?

Now we'll go into the next campaign struggling for players to take us to the next level and a group of 20-25 year olds who have no experience and aren't ready to be thrown in.

This will be repeated numerous times as it has been for years.

This is (finally) a totally reasonable point, and one I agree with. The Qatar game was a total waste of time for a number of reasons, but that should have been a younger squad at team. That I don't have a problem with, because I'd still expect a team of Scottish 'potential' team to scud them.