dorlomin Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Joining an effort by Warwick Uni to ban her speaking, Goldsmiths attempted to stop Maryam Namazie because she was an "Islamophobe". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Namazie Maryams problem is she is someone who has renounced Islam and now attacks many of it's adherents efforts to normalise religiosity in daily life, such as the Hijab. That there is a far right attack in Islam does not mean an attack on Islam is far right. The same goes for Christianity, Judaism and any other religion. Secularism, the idea that religion has a minimal at best place in public life, requires the space and ability to attack religion. People who have given up a faith have every right to use strong words in response to their experience growing up within a faith. There is a very obvious growing idea that "multiculturalism" is the only good in society and time people from within a cultural group object to an opinion that opinion must be suppressed. However I think that multiculturalism was an idea from the 80s that a country could have many cultures, it was not intended to be the idea that we should see cultures as the primary building blocks of our society. The primary building block of a post enlightenment society is supposed to be the individual and the individuals right to experience their life as best suits their needs so long as it does not come into conflict with others pursuit of their lives. We seem to have gotten to a point where people feel that multicultural is a carte blanche to shut down criticism. Expressing secularism and humanism will always offend someone by definition unless we are in a post religious society. Seeing universities attack and shut down the space for secularist debate is a deeply, deeply worrying trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 A fully paid up member of the awkward squad. Also known as the "cause a fight in an empty hoose brigade". Has a point about sky fairies but pisses folk off going about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I've no problem with multiculturalism, I've a problem where cultures are deeply entwined with dogmatic and all evasive religious overtones. It is true that criticism of Islam (in particular) is seen as Right-wing inspired islamofphobia, and I would like to see those of a left persuasion being less politically correct about condemning Islam as well as all other oppressive religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Islam is ludicrous. To me all religions are lsughable to some degree, but Islam is one of them that stands out as a bit more ridiculous than than others. To me it appears that those who follow it are slightly more than slaves to fantasy given it dictates so much of their lives. Of course if people want to live that way then I've no problem with it, provided they aren't harming anyone. This is my view on all religion. Unfortunately most religions do harm a great many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 as well as all other oppressive religions. All religions by nature are oppressive. I've had this argument many times, I accept peoples belief in God, but I do not belief how they can follow the words of a bunch of old men over another bunch of old men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I've no problem with anyone privately believing anything they choose to - it only starts being a problem when the religious of any persuasion attempt to mould the rest of society who don't share their delusion in order to fit what their imaginary pal in the sky seems to want. All the Abrahamic religions have got an inherently nasty streak. In this country we're obviously most familiar with Christianity, so just have a read of their guidebook. The old testament is a vicious piece of work, with a main character who acts like a spoilt wean rather than an all-powerful deity. All the hippy peace & love stuff doesn't come in till the new testament which is obviously a bolt-on from other traditions. If any religion was based on foundations of reality it could stand a bit of criticism and/or ridicule. Unfortunately, none are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 And your wummin is coming to her point from a communist party stance. Religion gave us ISIS, the Covenanters and witch burning. The commies gave us the Khmer Rouge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 "We feel that such an individual will violate our safe space" waaah waaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I've no problem with anyone privately believing anything they choose to - it only starts being a problem when the religious of any persuasion attempt to mould the rest of society who don't share their delusion in order to fit what their imaginary pal in the sky seems to want. All the Abrahamic religions have got an inherently nasty streak. In this country we're obviously most familiar with Christianity, so just have a read of their guidebook. The old testament is a vicious piece of work, with a main character who acts like a spoilt wean rather than an all-powerful deity. All the hippy peace & love stuff doesn't come in till the new testament which is obviously a bolt-on from other traditions. If any religion was based on foundations of reality it could stand a bit of criticism and/or ridicule. Unfortunately, none are. The church of scotland is one of the largest providers of social care in this country and employs over 2000 people to support and care for the elderly and other vulnerable groups. I know a number of people who make a significant difference in my local community every single day. They are completely grounded in reality as far as I can see. I'm not getting into another of these unending arguments but a huge number of people with faith use it to try and help the society they live in. The headline grabbers are c***s like ISIS who are no more representative of Islam than fly. Of course you don't need faith to do good in society - it's not an either or. But I know a lot of people who have a religious faith and I've never noticed them feeling oppressed by it. In Bo'ness, a number of areas of work with vulnerable people are picked up by the church because the council can't or won't fund it. Teachers in the community would tell you the difference that is being made. It's not all radical indoctrination stuff - or anything like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The church of scotland is one of the largest providers of social care in this country and employs over 2000 people to support and care for the elderly and other vulnerable groups. I know a number of people who make a significant difference in my local community every single day. They are completely grounded in reality as far as I can see. I'm not getting into another of these unending arguments but a huge number of people with faith use it to try and help the society they live in. The headline grabbers are c***s like ISIS who are no more representative of Islam than fly. Of course you don't need faith to do good in society - it's not an either or. But I know a lot of people who have a religious faith and I've never noticed them feeling oppressed by it. In Bo'ness, a number of areas of work with vulnerable people are picked up by the church because the council can't or won't fund it. Teachers in the community would tell you the difference that is being made. It's not all radical indoctrination stuff - or anything like it. There are many folk who call themselves Christians who are grounded and do good work (there's probably folk from other faiths who are likewise). However are they really Christians? I know some folk who call themselves this and will tick the box (literally) on the census form; but they rarely/never attend church, they don't believe Jesus was really the son of god, or that his mother was a virgin, or that he rose from the dead. They don't believe in 'life everlasting' that great attraction that appears to offer some comfort to folk that are approaching their latter years. So are they really Christians? In my view they're not, any more than the UK is a Christian country, though Christian institutions still have far to much influence. Compare and contrast this to Muslims. I know or have known very few Muslims in my lifetime, all of the ones I have known have been through business. All of them attend, or did attend, Friday prayers every week. Their religion was ingrained. I have very rarely tried to discuss religion with any of these people but on the rare occassions over the years there was a strong resistence to any such discussion. i take that as a sign that the tenets of their faith is not up for discussion and definitely not for dissent. I have great admiration for people who have been raised in the Muslim faith who have broken free of their religious shackles; it must be very difficult and traumatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 She sounds gobby as f**k. No wonder they banned her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 "Open secular debate under attack" As I've alluded to numerous times, you have the power held by and incessant foot-stamping and speech monitoring by 'progressives', social justice types, and feminism to thank for this. There is one songbook - if you're not singing from it, you're in trouble. Criticizing religion is fine... as long as it's Christianity. Criticizing Islam is 'Islamophobia', 'racism'. Criticizing by skin colour is fine... as long as it's white. Criticizing by other skin colours is racism. Criticizing by sexual orientation is fine... as long as it's heterophobia. Criticizing others is homophobia, transphobia. Criticizing by gender is fine... as long as it's men. Criticizing women is misogyny, woman-hating. Criticizing feminism is all of these rolled into one, as it now represents them all to some degree. Debates are being repeatedly banned, protested and disrupted in universities around the UK and North America, because they might hurt these 'progressives' feelings, or breach campus 'safe space' policy, 'triggering' 'oppressed folks' (such as those attending Ivy league colleges) into meltdowns. Speakers are being no-platformed if their points of view do not match that of the songbook. These narcissists are demanding that heads roll, and in some cases heads are rolling. York University spinelessly bows to a petition from ~200 feminist, 'progressive' students and staff (lecturers, professors) to not mark and raise issues on International Men's Day as it had planned, because it might make some people "unhappy". The same day a male student there committed suicide. The 'progressive'-type media back it up. Platforms are given to these people, comments sections are censored, and not provided if the message of the article is too precious to be brought into disrepute by commentors with different opinions and facts. The 'progressive' readership swallows it all, and is quick to follow pointing fingers and those not singing from the songbook. Government follows in bits and pieces, under pressure from advocacy groups (and outside 'advisors') who are now bolstered by that part of the public opinion who are allowed to have a voice, and bolstered by the ongoing silencing of dissenters. The main counter voices are now towards the vocal extremes, great for the cause as it proves just how bad differing opinion really is and underlines why censorship is necessary. An MP asking for a parliamentary debate on International Men's Day is scorned, rated a misogynist, troll, needing silenced. A good one from Canada: Bubbles, Play-doh, puppies - a 'safe space' that actually happened: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 If you are criticising ANYONE purely based on their skin colour, their sexual orientation or their gender then you are engaging in wilful discrimination. Didn't you learn anything at school? To be fair to banana, I've seen multiple instances of feminists thinking they can get away with criticising white men and anyone who challenges that is promptly told to check their privelege. There's also the bizarre case of Bagar Mustafa getting away with tweeting "kill all white men" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 If you are criticising ANYONE purely based on their skin colour, their sexual orientation or their gender then you are engaging in wilful discrimination. Didn't you learn anything at school? Ask the 'progressives', the feminists, the social justice types. NOT treating select skin colours, genders, sexual preferences differently, specially, is now racism, sexism, sexual orientation discrimination. Treating those non-select groups differently, worse, is not however 'bad' discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Ask the 'progressives', the feminists, the social justice types. NOT treating select skin colours, genders, sexual preferences differently, specially, is now racism, sexism, sexual orientation discrimination. I'm intrigued to know what criticisms you would direct towards gay people that wouldn't be homophobic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 A shirt lifter could work in a clothing factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 banana turning this one into his personal crusade Nobody gives a f**k. Pipe down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Dear Oaksoft Learn to use multiquote Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's really not that hard. Even someone as fucked up as you can. It's a small button next to quote. It stops us requiring to read 3 or 4 of your "insightful" posts and also makes it easier for people to reply to your ramblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's really not that hard. Even someone as fucked up as you can. It's a small button next to quote. It stops us requiring to read 3 or 4 of your "insightful" posts and also makes it easier for people to reply to your ramblings. There's a far better solution. Put him on ignore. Thank me later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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