Wishaw Secretary Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 The reason for using total numbers involved in the Juniors was to attempt to highlight the low level of coverage given to the whole of the Junior grade by the national media. The juniors get a couple of roundups and a couple of 'articles' at best across the whole week in a couple of national papers. The seniors get mass coverage in every paper every single day never mind endless coverage on TV and National and Local Radio. The total numbers of people participating / supporting 'the juniors' is broadly similar to the total numbers doing so for the bottom two national senior divisions. Do we get an equitable level of media coverage in total?? The justification for including players and committees when trying to quantify the total numbers involved etc is that there are c164 junior teams as opposed to 20 senior clubs in bottom two national senior leagues so that is quite a lot of involved bodies who wouldn't otherwise be counted. Another aspect perhaps missed by national newspaper editors is that many senior supporters will have a passing interest in the juniors, particularly their local clubs. We need to talk our grade up not down. Scottish League One No. Club Average Games vs '15 Highest 1 Dunfermline Athletic FC 3.204 9 27,0% 4.009 2 Ayr United FC 1.361 10 20,6% 2.076 3 Airdieonians FC 902 10 8,7% 1.371 4 Forfar Athletic FC 780 10 6,1% 1.618 5 Albion Rovers FC 599 8 8,6% 1.120 6 Cowdenbeath FC 596 9 -62,1% 2.097 7 Peterhead FC 592 9 2,0% 996 8 Stenhousemuir FC 570 10 -2,5% 1.554 9 Brechin City FC 536 9 -2,9% 1.214 10 Stranrear FC 473 9 -12,7% 882 . Total 963 -3,5% 4.009 Scottish League Two No. Club Average Games vs '15 Highest 1 Arbroath FC 659 8 -8,6% 1.146 2 Elgin City FC 653 9 20,1% 732 3 Stirling Albion FC 633 9 -17,7% 796 4 Clyde FC 553 9 5,2% 783 5 East Fife FC 526 9 -5,5% 673 6 Montrose FC 511 9 21,9% 1.100 7 Queen's Park FC 488 9 -19,8% 684 8 Berwick Rangers FC 482 9 3,3% 721 9 Annan Athletic FC 446 9 13,4% 549 10 East Stirlingshire FC 314 8 -0,2% 511 . Total 527 3,4% 1.146 Last update : 31-12-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipple burn Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 FFS Goudie is going to see this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of the juniors Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 The reason for using total numbers involved in the Juniors was to attempt to highlight the low level of coverage given to the whole of the Junior grade by the national media. The juniors get a couple of roundups and a couple of 'articles' at best across the whole week in a couple of national papers. The seniors get mass coverage in every paper every single day never mind endless coverage on TV and National and Local Radio. The total numbers of people participating / supporting 'the juniors' is broadly similar to the total numbers doing so for the bottom two national senior divisions. Do we get an equitable level of media coverage in total?? The justification for including players and committees when trying to quantify the total numbers involved etc is that there are c164 junior teams as opposed to 20 senior clubs in bottom two national senior leagues so that is quite a lot of involved bodies who wouldn't otherwise be counted. Another aspect perhaps missed by national newspaper editors is that many senior supporters will have a passing interest in the juniors, particularly their local clubs. We need to talk our grade up not down. Scottish League One No. Club Average Games vs '15 Highest 1 Dunfermline Athletic FC 3.204 9 27,0% 4.009 2 Ayr United FC 1.361 10 20,6% 2.076 3 Airdieonians FC 902 10 8,7% 1.371 4 Forfar Athletic FC 780 10 6,1% 1.618 5 Albion Rovers FC 599 8 8,6% 1.120 6 Cowdenbeath FC 596 9 -62,1% 2.097 7 Peterhead FC 592 9 2,0% 996 8 Stenhousemuir FC 570 10 -2,5% 1.554 9 Brechin City FC 536 9 -2,9% 1.214 10 Stranrear FC 473 9 -12,7% 882 . Total 963 -3,5% 4.009 Scottish League Two No. Club Average Games vs '15 Highest 1 Arbroath FC 659 8 -8,6% 1.146 2 Elgin City FC 653 9 20,1% 732 3 Stirling Albion FC 633 9 -17,7% 796 4 Clyde FC 553 9 5,2% 783 5 East Fife FC 526 9 -5,5% 673 6 Montrose FC 511 9 21,9% 1.100 7 Queen's Park FC 488 9 -19,8% 684 8 Berwick Rangers FC 482 9 3,3% 721 9 Annan Athletic FC 446 9 13,4% 549 10 East Stirlingshire FC 314 8 -0,2% 511 . Total 527 3,4% 1.146 Last update : 31-12-15 You just opened a whole can of worms buddy lolM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 In both my Mon-Sat and my Sunday paper they now print HL & LL round-up reports, results (with scorers & times), tables, fixtures for next 7 days, etc. In contrast the Juniors just get results (only) on Sunday and Monday, in a small print column with EOSL, SOSL and minor football. You get another layer of info again at SPFL1&2 level - attendances, line-up, bookings - and considerably longer round-ups. None of that is basic data is provided in the Juniors, and there isn't even a fixture list. Indeed sometimes games only come out the previous weekend. So even if they wanted to cover it more - considering the supports at almost all Junior clubs are smaller than almost all SPFL clubs - how could they? They're unlikely to cover non-pyramid matches when basic information isn't available, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 In both my Mon-Sat and my Sunday paper they now print HL & LL round-up reports, results (with scorers & times), tables, fixtures for next 7 days, etc. In contrast the Juniors just get results (only) on Sunday and Monday, in a small print column with EOSL, SOSL and minor football. You get another layer of info again at SPFL1&2 level - attendances, line-up, bookings - and considerably longer round-ups. None of that is basic data is provided in the Juniors, and there isn't even a fixture list. Indeed sometimes games only come out the previous weekend. So even if they wanted to cover it more - considering the supports at almost all Junior clubs are smaller than almost all SPFL clubs - how could they? They're unlikely to cover non-pyramid matches when basic information isn't available, IMO. Yes hibbyjibby we are the smaller clubs. Nothing had ever changed apart from the sfa trying to fill cracks in the wall. Junior football is more about attendances than ll or hl. It's about community and passion. Something a lot of the so called big team don't or never had. It's a pity you don't get it because if you followed the juniors i.e an actual local club and got into it you would see what I mean. It's a different experience all together. The juniors may change but that community spirit won't. The Sun and Evening times does the juniors proud with their coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 So far we have our main Cup Final broadcasted live on TV with usually a big support at the game. Strange how we don't see the third/second/ division play off games? Maybe because the demand isn't there. All about perspective buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 They do show SPFL1 playoff. Also, I thought it was established on here previously that the SJFA was actually giving money to BBC Alba for the Final? My point was simply regarding why the reasons most major papers and broadcasters - except some red tops, plus the West Scotland regionals - won't give much or any coverage. Fact they're covering SPFL1, SPFL2, HL & LL games but not Junior games shows they're not just limiting it to big crowds. I'd have to drive for approaching an hour even to reach a Junior club. In some parts of the country it's not an option at all (e.g. Borders), in others it's not the natural option (e.g. Edinburgh or up north). Not going to get into argument about it - but the old claims that Junior clubs are "real clubs" with "communities" while SPFL Highland or Lowland clubs are not, is false. Berwick Rangers or Gala Fairydean are as much real clubs within communities as Auchinleck Talbot. Btw, I watch a number of Junior games and I don't find the experience to be better, worse or different - whether the Junior Cup Final or a Superleague game or a District league match. It's a football match - the quality, atmosphere and facilities can be the same, better or worse than you'd find at other matches. That quite natural. It's a pity we've got all these separate grades in Scottish non-league fitba. If not we'd have an even bigger sub-forum to measure against Premiership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 . They do show SPFL1 playoff. Also, I thought it was established on here previously that the SJFA was actually giving money to BBC Alba for the Final? My point was simply regarding why the reasons most major papers and broadcasters - except some red tops, plus the West Scotland regionals - won't give much or any coverage. Fact they're covering SPFL1, SPFL2, HL & LL games but not Junior games shows they're not just limiting it to big crowds. I'd have to drive for approaching an hour even to reach a Junior club. In some parts of the country it's not an option at all (e.g. Borders), in others it's not the natural option (e.g. Edinburgh or up north). Not going to get into argument about it - but the old claims that Junior clubs are "real clubs" with "communities" while SPFL Highland or Lowland clubs are not, is false. Berwick Rangers or Gala Fairydean are as much real clubs within communities as Auchinleck Talbot. Btw, I watch a number of Junior games and I don't find the experience to be better, worse or different - whether the Junior Cup Final or a Superleague game or a District league match. It's a football match - the quality, atmosphere and facilities can be the same, better or worse than you'd find at other matches. That quite natural. It's a pity we've got all these separate grades in Scottish non-league fitba. If not we'd have an even bigger sub-forum to measure against Premiership... Some good points there but I'll disagree on the atmosphere thing. If you don't support any team in the juniors and only go to the game to watch then that's not the same as you don't have that personal feel for any team. They'll be change in the set up that is for sure, but better or worse am not so certain. The problem I see is the lowland league central belt area clubs will never take on as it is saturated with teams. In my opinion the claim of junior clubs being the real clubs within communities has substance as the fan Base is already there, Hence the reason Ayrshire and East coast teams are usually winning in the juniors. East Kilbride and BSC struggle and it's mostly the players family watching their games. All in all this is an issue that was very poorly handled by the sfa/sfja who had a great chance to make a proper system where it worked for all. In the end it was kackhanded and shoddy as folk are looking at the Juniors and LL/HL outfits and wondering what the hell is the better attraction. I will predict that a lot of junior teams will likely fold over the next decade and the suits will suit back and let it happen. Then the l certain fans can sit in glee with a smug smile on their face saying yes I told you so. Personally I would hate to see that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 .Some good points there but I'll disagree on the atmosphere thing. If you don't support any team in the juniors and only go to the game to watch then that's not the same as you don't have that personal feel for any team. They'll be change in the set up that is for sure, but better or worse am not so certain. The problem I see is the lowland league central belt area clubs will never take on as it is saturated with teams. In my opinion the claim of junior clubs being the real clubs within communities has substance as the fan Base is already there, Hence the reason Ayrshire and East coast teams are usually winning in the juniors. East Kilbride and BSC struggle and it's mostly the players family watching their games. All in all this is an issue that was very poorly handled by the sfa/sfja who had a great chance to make a proper system where it worked for all. In the end it was kackhanded and shoddy as folk are looking at the Juniors and LL/HL outfits and wondering what the hell is the better attraction. I will predict that a lot of junior teams will likely fold over the next decade and the suits will suit back and let it happen. Then the l certain fans can sit in glee with a smug smile on their face saying yes I told you so. Personally I would hate to see that happen. Completely agree but what can fans do about it.....unless you mean those who don't actually go to games at present? The SJFA seem to be blind and mute when it comes to criticism or suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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