Bankies Alive Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 As Burnie stated above Banks o Dee cant go anywhere as the Highland League is a closed shop. Linlithgow have held a license and could have applied for one of 3 places in the Lowland League and haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 As Burnie stated above Banks o Dee cant go anywhere as the Highland League is a closed shop. Linlithgow have held a license and could have applied for one of 3 places in the Lowland League and haven't. The SJFA have yet to clarify what happens to a Junior team coming back down. The SJFA while not in the pyramid is below it. Therefore a team coming out the Lowland league should not have to go to the bottom of the Junior pile. If LRFC went UP and for what ever reason decided it was not for them, they'd face a 4 division relegation and potential oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Lastly; Don't blame Tom Johnstone. He is Secretary and his job is to administer what is laid down to him. How many clubs are talking to one and other, and will come up with proposals to try another approach to our game that has sunk so much in recent years, at the AGM? He is on a very good salary for what he does. He should be leading the way in driving the game forward, him and his Exec committee, but the silence is deafening, all he has come up with was an amalgamated West/East Superleague idea which was thrown out, since then, nothing. At the very least, he should be proposing the abolition of the reinstament rule as a very basic starter for ten at the upcoming AGM as well as forming a working party to look at radical changes to the game, such has been mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 He is on a very good salary for what he does. He should be leading the way in driving the game forward, him and his Exec committee, but the silence is deafening, all he has come up with was an amalgamated West/East Superleague idea which was thrown out, since then, nothing. At the very least, he should be proposing the abolition of the reinstament rule as a very basic starter for ten at the upcoming AGM as well as forming a working party to look at radical changes to the game, such has been mentioned here. He's on an outstanding salary for what he ACTUALLY does! He doesn't have to have the answers or even the ideas, but he needs to have commissioned a group to identify the answers or ways of taking the game forward. As you rightly say he hasn't really done anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham1sh68 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Linlithgow are the only Junior club in position to make the move.. No their not.. Banks o Dee(The only north junior team to win the Scottish Junior Cup) are licensed too. Just for your information: Scottish Junior Cup Final: 1953/54 Sunnybank 2 Lochee Harp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Were any Juniors club part of the 27 applicants to the LL when it was created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Were any Juniors club part of the 27 applicants to the LL when it was created? The SJFA have yet to clarify what happens to a Junior team coming back down. The SJFA while not in the pyramid is below it. Therefore a team coming out the Lowland league should not have to go to the bottom of the Junior pile. If a Junior team went up and for what ever reason decided it was not for them, they'd face having to rejoin at the very bottom. Until this is clearly clarified any Junior club leaving would be crazy - unless they already were in the bottom tier and therefore had everything to gain and nothing to lose! Putting it in the context of an SPFL Premier side, imagine United applied to join the Atlantic League, a set-up with no automatic promotion or relegation. If it was unsuccessful and they wished to revert to the domestic league, would you expect them to come back to Scotland at a future date at the top or bottom? That's the uncharted territory where the Juniors are lying just now. Would the club leave without that being specified? Would you be happy to go from Atlantic League to Seaside League 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Were any Juniors club part of the 27 applicants to the LL when it was created? None. Perhaps the failure of the SJFA to engage prior to decisions being taken, but Junior clubs were given about three months' notice that it was definitely happening. Said at the time if it had been slated to start the season after there would have been some quality Junior applicants, but it was presented almost as a fait accompli with at least half the sides already chosen. Having a lot more to lose than some of the sides that now constitute the LL, understandably the big Junior sides saw it as too much of a leap in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 And of course a true pyramid would have offered similar opportunity to junior teams in the north but there was absolutely no chance of that because the HL had the "full" signs up and zero intention of a second division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 And of course a true pyramid would have offered similar opportunity to junior teams in the north but there was absolutely no chance of that because the HL had the "full" signs up and zero intention of a second division. Crazy as this may sound, it was probably the fact that there would be no junior involvement in the HL that led to a really short engagement process with the potential LL juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 And of course a true pyramid would have offered similar opportunity to junior teams in the north but there was absolutely no chance of that because the HL had the "full" signs up and zero intention of a second division. Totally agree HTG,at the time they had no intention,closed shop an all that.Like you I am a big fan of a fully integrated pyramid system where teams rise and fall on their ability.Very encouraged bout the news coming out of the SHFL bout creating a second highland division,it is a start nothing more but far better than what we have now,no promotion,no relegation with the top dogs..Cove,Brora,Formartine,Turriff being light years in front of those at the bottom..Rothes,Strathspey and Fort.Would love the junior clubs to go en-masse and knock down the SFA's door and say sort this non-league mess out and for those clubs in the pyramid to accept them in with open arms.Ps in regards to an earlier post,fair play to Sunnybank and of course Banks in winning the scottish in a tournament traditionally tough for north sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Totally agree HTG,at the time they had no intention,closed shop an all that.Like you I am a big fan of a fully integrated pyramid system where teams rise and fall on their ability.Very encouraged bout the news coming out of the SHFL bout creating a second highland division,it is a start nothing more but far better than what we have now,no promotion,no relegation with the top dogs..Cove,Brora,Formartine,Turriff being light years in front of those at the bottom..Rothes,Strathspey and Fort.Would love the junior clubs to go en-masse and knock down the SFA's door and say sort this non-league mess out and for those clubs in the pyramid to accept them in with open arms.Ps in regards to an earlier post,fair play to Sunnybank and of course Banks in winning the scottish in a tournament traditionally tough for north sides. HL definitely needs its better teams playing more of a similar standard. Humping Rothes and a few others is going to get tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 HL definitely needs its better teams playing more of a similar standard. Humping Rothes and a few others is going to get tedious. Totally agree HTG,it's getting boring,even we scutched Rothes 0-7 away from home in October,a game I was at,it was men against boys and Vale are not exactly having a great season.Just wish someone in the corridors of power would rattle heads together and get the whole of non-league Scotland sorted out.I happen to think yous guys would go far,league 1 certainly and even the lower reaches of the Championship would not be beyond Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Totally agree HTG,it's getting boring,even we scutched Rothes 0-7 away from home in October,a game I was at,it was men against boys and Vale are not exactly having a great season.Just wish someone in the corridors of power would rattle heads together and get the whole of non-league Scotland sorted out.I happen to think yous guys would go far,league 1 certainly and even the lower reaches of the Championship would not be beyond Rose This. Rose are larger than both Alloa and Dumbarton, in terms of size of club and size of ground. I think someone at the SFA/SFJA needs to bring all the "Lowland" clubs together to find a solution. Best Bet is a HL - LL East - LL West structure under the SPFL. Then, the pyramid could just incorporate juniors in to it fairly basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 The SJFA have yet to clarify what happens to a Junior team coming back down. The SJFA while not in the pyramid is below it. Therefore a team coming out the Lowland league should not have to go to the bottom of the Junior pile. If a Junior team went up and for what ever reason decided it was not for them, they'd face having to rejoin at the very bottom. Until this is clearly clarified any Junior club leaving would be crazy - unless they already were in the bottom tier and therefore had everything to gain and nothing to lose! Would they really that crazy? The current situation is being part of an organisation run hand to mouth where even something as simple as fixture lists has more in common with LastMinute.com than a salaried sports organisation. For clubs there's the prospect of a proper structure when they know what games are due in advance, making it easier for part time players to organise time off for matches if required, etc; for clubs to put in requests for fixture changes or postponements, etc; for those trying to manage the purse strings to budget properly rather than having to shake down committee members, do emergency fund raisers or pay the bar makes enough next week. The antediluvian nature of the current Junior set up would not be tolerated in any other semi or pseudo-semi-professional sport. Yet Scotland's Junior clubs do so "just because", but I wonder for how much longer some will be willing to put up with it as they see an increasing number of non-league clubs outside of their set up (some having only come into being in the blink of an eye!) being able to offer fans & potential backers more & more of what they cannot hope to deliver so long as they continue to supperate in the endless Groundhog Day of Junior football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robyclem Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I was on the Beith Juniors committee for about twenty years and never regretted one day even during the close season down at the park doing a bit of painting had to give it up because of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Would they really that crazy? The current situation is being part of an organisation run hand to mouth where even something as simple as fixture lists has more in common with LastMinute.com than a salaried sports organisation. For clubs there's the prospect of a proper structure when they know what games are due in advance, making it easier for part time players to organise time off for matches if required, etc; for clubs to put in requests for fixture changes or postponements, etc; for those trying to manage the purse strings to budget properly rather than having to shake down committee members, do emergency fund raisers or pay the bar makes enough next week. The antediluvian nature of the current Junior set up would not be tolerated in any other semi or pseudo-semi-professional sport. Yet Scotland's Junior clubs do so "just because", but I wonder for how much longer some will be willing to put up with it as they see an increasing number of non-league clubs outside of their set up (some having only come into being in the blink of an eye!) being able to offer fans & potential backers more & more of what they cannot hope to deliver so long as they continue to supperate in the endless Groundhog Day of Junior football? In the context of say my own team giving LL a go and deciding for whatever reason it wasn't right. They'd face having to come back into West Div 2. As long as that is a possibility then it's possible. It would be crazy to leave the Juniors without a clear and sane pathway back - if that was needed. SJFA needs to spell out exactly what would happen to a team that left and came back. There's no easy answer here though as it's not automatic promotion / relegation. For argument's sake let's say Pollok and Ashfield were both admitted this year but both decided to leave at the end of the season and wanted back into Junior football. Logic (to me anyway) says Lowland > SJFA therefore go down into next highest league... but that would mean Ashfield effectively being promoted a few divisions from where they started. Put them in at the bottom and Ashfield are no worse off but Pollok would effectively be relegated 3 divisions. Perhaps stipulating teams return to their own division would be one way. Another would be for the LL to only accept applications from teams at the top of their set-up. i.e. if Haddington want in, they'd have to get to the East Super Divsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 The antediluvian nature of the current Junior set up Nope, me neither....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Nope, me neither....... Antediluvian means before the flood. Given the winter we've had I assume he means last October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 The antediluvian nature of the current Junior set up Nope, me neither....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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