DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 If the Lib Dems were going to gain anti-Brexit votes then they would have done so during their anti-Brexit election campaign for the 'Brexit parliament'. They failed to do so as they have no credibility as a political party and so enjoy next to no influence over the Brexit process. In all probability the deal will be done by the time another election is called so that stance will be utterly irrelevant. They are a busted flush. Absolutely.I am staunchly anti-Brexit but would never consider voting for the Fib Dems again after they got into bed with the Tories.Any semblance they had as a party of principle was well and truly thrown oot the windie when they did that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Absolutely.I am staunchly anti-Brexit but would never consider voting for the Fib Dems again after they got into bed with the Tories.Any semblance they had as a party of principle was well and truly thrown oot the windie when they did that. I was a student in 2010 and whilst I didn't vote Lib Dem in that election a lot of people who considered themselves to be on the left did. They felt incredibly let down and I think that feeling of betrayal has cut deeply for a large group of voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Why are folk that consider themselves "left wing" so desperate to ensure that the offspring or relatively wealthy people should get free university tuition? Why should those who are less likely to get to uni pay for other more fortunate to continue their studies after school? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Because its an investment in doctors and surgeons and engineers and things that us people who didn't go to university might need in the future.I don't drive but I'm sure some of my tax money goes to build roads for wealthy people to drive on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Because its an investment in doctors and surgeons and engineers and things that us people who didn't go to university might need in the future.I don't drive but I'm sure some of my tax money goes to build roads for wealthy people to drive on. What percentage of uni students go and study vocational subject like those mentioned and what percentage go and study dross like media studies etc? What state funding do young folk that do vocational training get? Whose fixes our heating? Fits our kitchens and lays our driveways? Why do the offspring of the rich get 9k a year state subsidy and the rest get nothing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Why do the offspring of the rich get 9k a year state subsidy and the rest get nothing? The rich offspring's parents will have paid tax while getting rich. Would we not encourage more tax avoidance if they can't benefit from what they pay in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: Why are folk that consider themselves "left wing" so desperate to ensure that the offspring or relatively wealthy people should get free university tuition? Why should those who are less likely to get to uni pay for other more fortunate to continue their studies after school? Because universality is a key part of socialism my friend and higher education shouldn't be an endeavour solely for the privileged classes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Because universality is a key part of socialism my friend and higher education shouldn't be an endeavour solely for the privileged classes. It shouldn't be, but it is. And free education overwhelmingly benefits the haves, not the have nots. Hardly an equitable way to allocate resources in tough times. If it appeases the middle class "left wing" virtue signallers though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 If it appeases the middle class "left wing" virtue signallers though... On here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 On here? In society. That's one reason why more working class people are turning to the Tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, The Chlamydia Kid said: It shouldn't be, but it is. And free education overwhelmingly benefits the haves not the have nots. Hardly an equitable way to allocate resources in tough times. If it appeases the middle class "left wing" virtue signallers though... Nah that's a lot of bollocks and you're just repeating empty Tory propaganda. If you're going to be a class traitor be a bit more inventive about it rather than this "giving everybody a good thing is bad actually" nonsense. Means testing is literally never going to be perfect and you're going to deprive loads of people the opportunity to seek a greater education for themselves by some arbitrary measure. Plus benefits that are universally given tend to have much more staying power since scum governments are more afraid of taking them away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I was a student in 2010 and whilst I didn't vote Lib Dem in that election a lot of people who considered themselves to be on the left did. They felt incredibly let down and I think that feeling of betrayal has cut deeply for a large group of voters. Why are folk that consider themselves "left wing" so desperate to ensure that the offspring or relatively wealthy people should get free university tuition? Why should those who are less likely to get to uni pay for other more fortunate to continue their studies after school? I'm not sure anyone except Jmo thinks he is "left wing"Yet this one post has set you off tonight? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Shocking events in Minnesota. An unarmed Australian woman shot dead by police after she was shouting hysterically outside a house - it seems she may have approached the police car to report a suspected rape. The Police Chief has resigned - I sincerely hope the b*****d who shot her gets locked up. This is not the first and nor will it be the last time time that some trigger-happy cop will cause mayhem. It's one of the reasons I don't want us going down the arm every police officer route. If we are arming the police then it should only be specialists who are trained to a high professional standard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782The government are planning on making it easier for people to 'change' gender. Apparently this could even include altering the sex on your birth certificate, which seems odd. I'm not really sure this move is needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782The government are planning on making it easier for people to 'change' gender. Apparently this could even include altering the sex on your birth certificate, which seems odd. I'm not really sure this move is needed. What a strange thing to take issue with. If it makes lives easier for certain people in society whilst not having any effect whatsoever on everyone else's, then it's fine by me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 What a strange thing to take issue with. If it makes lives easier for certain people in society whilst not having any effect whatsoever on everyone else's, then it's fine by me. Point being it will have an effect on other people's lives, particularly women. Women only spaces are likely to be impacted if it is easier for man who have transformed to claim to be a woman and access them. This is concerning for rape survivors. I'm also at a loss as to why the state feels the need to record genders. Recording sex for health reasons etc makes sense but a 'woman' with a penis is biologically male so recording them as a women doesn't seem right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: Point being it will have an effect on other people's lives, particularly women. Women only spaces are likely to be impacted if it is easier for man who have transformed to claim to be a woman and access them. This is concerning for rape survivors. I'm also at a loss as to why the state feels the need to record genders. Recording sex for health reasons etc makes sense but a 'woman' with a penis is biologically male so recording them as a women doesn't seem right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, MarkoRaj said: What a strange thing to take issue with. If it makes lives easier for certain people in society whilst not having any effect whatsoever on everyone else's, then it's fine by me. I think that's the thing. If it makes lives easier for certain people then great, but if it does impact other people in negative ways - we need to consider that too. Some of those might not be apparent to us right now. Let's be honest, most of us were ignorant to the impact that some of our societal practices have/had on the LGBT community 10-20 years ago, so I think it correct to proceed - but with caution. I think the government are correct to have a consultation on this. Edited July 23, 2017 by Shades75 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 [emoji38] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 52 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: Point being it will have an effect on other people's lives, particularly women. Women only spaces are likely to be impacted if it is easier for man who have transformed to claim to be a woman and access them. This is concerning for rape survivors. I'm also at a loss as to why the state feels the need to record genders. Recording sex for health reasons etc makes sense but a 'woman' with a penis is biologically male so recording them as a women doesn't seem right. You're at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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