archie guevara Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Celtic fans causing bother and it's everybody else's fault. Same old same old. Well that's the story that will stick unless someone starts kicking up about it. At the moment folk are trying to bury it under a "nothing to see here" headline to try to cover up somebody's mess in a smaller version of the events leading to Rangers falling apart. Somebody made the fake tickets. Who had access to the real tickets? The printers and the ticket office staff at both Hearts and Celtic. One of them must have leaked the tickets or else we are dealing with really crap forgeries, which Ann Budge says they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Why are Celtic reimbursing the affected fans when it is Hearts scanning system that has failed to spot the forgeries? It was Celtic that sold the tickets so it's they who have the commercial relationship with supposed victims of fraud here. In practical terms it is Celtic that processed the payments and so it makes more sense for them to process the refunds. It also Celtic who will be most closely involved in the investigation as to how the fraud happens and they need to know who to ban. Whether Hearts ticketing is sufficiently robust against fraud is another question but if Hearts are going to reimburse anyone it should be Celtic plc as opposed to individual Celtic fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Why did the stewards or police not go into the stadium with a few of the real tickets and throw the kunts with the fakes out? Maybe they were wary of being attacked. Again. Apparently, the fakes were very good fakes. Do Celtic not bring their own stewards to Tynecastle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wonder Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Having pondered on this piece in today's Record it seems that the forged tickets were very hard to spot, which tends to suggest that those using them may not have been aware that they were forgeries. That then becomes an issue of criminality on a sophisticated scale, which surely Police Scotland will investigate. However the sophistication of the forgeries does not absolve Hearts from any responsibility. If their security measures are not up to scratch then they have an issue for future games. Imagine if it was not a few dozen fans locked outside, but hundreds. There is a bad smell about all of this which our media is ignoring. Their response seems to be similar to the early days of the Rangers meltdown, with obvious questions not being asked. For example:- Can we see some of the forged tickets and take photos to show our readers? (Answer, probably not because then you'd see how shite they actually are and how shit our scanning system is) How many forgeries are we talking about, precisely? (Hearts or Celtic must know because the area was full and people were left outside - so how many are claiming refunds?) Are the police involved in investigating the forgery? Why are Celtic reimbursing the affected fans when it is Hearts scanning system that has failed to spot the forgeries? How precisely will you stop this happening again at any future match, given that Tynecastle is selling out every game? It was around 14 fans locked out wasn't it? As for the bit in bold: A spokesman for Celtic said: “We have spoken to Hearts and the club have indicated that all our supporters affected will be offered a full refund or tickets for our next match at Tynecastle.†That's Hearts paying for refunds, not Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 It was around 14 fans locked out wasn't it? As for the bit in bold: A spokesman for Celtic said: “We have spoken to Hearts and the club have indicated that all our supporters affected will be offered a full refund or tickets for our next match at Tynecastle.†That's Hearts paying for refunds, not Celtic. Fair enough and thanks for spotting that. I was referencing an earlier piece in the Record which had this quote. "Match Commander, Chief Inspector Bob Paris, said: "While policing the Hearts vs Celtic match at Tynecastle Stadium on Saturday 30th April, stewarding staff informed officers that the ground had reached maximum capacity and they would be closing the turnstiles. "Officers agreed with this approach and assisted in prevented any further entry in the interest of public safety. "Fans who had valid tickets but were unable to view the match are asked to contact their club to establish why their seats were unavailable and seek a refund." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylo vanal Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Why did the stewards or police not go into the stadium with a few of the real tickets and throw the kunts with the fakes out? There was 1200+ how would that be feasible? Let's not blame the police or stewards here, the people to blame are the celtic fans who made the fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersons Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Celtic fans causing bother and it's everybody else's fault. Same old same old.There's a surprise!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Here's a real ticket from May 2014, that I used, but it is still fully intact. If this works with the scanners then Hearts have a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Here's a real ticket from May 2014, that I used, but it is still fully intact. If this works with the scanners then Hearts have a big problem. Home supporters can buy tickets as pdf downloads and print them off at home There's nothing to stop you printing multiple copies but only one admission per unique serial number (71654530324601 in your case) is permitted. In effect the number (as encoded in the barcode) is the ticket, the paper is just holding it. It wouldn't have been too difficult to forge a copy of your ticket for the Partick end but if anybody used the copy then the person with the original would be knocked back and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Home supporters can buy tickets as pdf downloads and print them off at home There's nothing to stop you printing multiple copies but only one admission per unique serial number (71654530324601 in your case) is permitted. In effect the number (as encoded in the barcode) is the ticket, the paper is just holding it. It wouldn't have been too difficult to forge a copy of your ticket for the Partick end but if anybody used the copy then the person with the original would be knocked back and vice versa. Helpful, thanks. Presumably the same technology works with airline boarding passes that are printed at home - it's a one time code that is printed. So that rules out one of the theories in circulation on social media which suggests that folk were reusing old tickets. Ann Budge is saying that the forgeries are very difficult to identify, which shifts blame away from the turnstile operators. In the absence of anything else, the conclusion must be that some Celtic fans were involved in forging tickets that denied other Celtic fans entry to the game. If I was a Celtic fan I'd be wanting that investigated by the club, and the folk responsible banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If I was a Celtic fan I'd be wanting that investigated by the club, and the folk responsible banned. Clonmel Bhoy says 'he knows who's to blame.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Clonmel Bhoy says 'he knows who's to blame.'Definitely NOT the green brigade. There's only 70 off them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Aye, the ticket touts So, you're not blaming the police/stewards, then? Jolly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 No, i'm blaming the people who printed the fakes. You don't blame the police/stewards for not going and checking the tickets of the folk that were already in the seats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylo vanal Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 The seats and tickets have numbers on them. It is simple. If i'm outside with a real ticket i would expect the police or stewards go and check if the person sitting in my seat has a fake ticket. I know who is to blame. And the chances of them just Sitting in the correct bit are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcor Roar Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If I couldn't get in with a real ticket then i'd be expecting the stewards to check which twat was sitting in my seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If I couldn't get in with a real ticket then i'd be expecting the stewards to check which twat was sitting in my seat. Would you do that for a Celtic fan, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcor Roar Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Would you do that for a Celtic fan, though? Probably not. I have it on good authority that this was a conspiracy organised by Police Scotland anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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