Berwick Rangers 2016/17

[Velazquez Blue]

I find it funny when people demand the board resign as though there is a never-ending queue of people with the resources, whether financial, knowledge, or otherwise, to step into their boots and take us to new places. This year is the first in my time supporting them that we've ever actually had the chance to pick and choose in relation to elections/re-elections. It was a positive development, but there is no real evidence to suggest that this will be the same every year and as far as I can tell, even the one who most agreed was a 'no brainer' has yet to have much of an impact.
So for very much similar reasons, to also suggest that a supporters organisation committee should resign is a proposition I have to say I find laughable, and that is without looking at in more black and white terms - you're essentially holding a fundraising event organiser, or a gate staff member or assistant groundsman responsible for us falling out of the SPFL. Ignoring that you're oddly adamant in your belief that everyone should resign if we go down, but if we stay up everyone can stay, imagine the unimaginable does happen for a moment. We go down and everyone resigns en-masse. Who picks up the pieces? You've just got rid of any party who is capable of doing so. And would that leave us in a healthier position, or even give us the platform to move on to be in one?
 
There is an undeinable and entirely poisionous split at board level. It appears to have had an increasingly negative effect on what happens on the park in recent years, and we're now in danger of paying the ultimate price. It's for that reason that I entirely agree with Brian - were it my sole choice, the candidate who picked up the 5th-most votes would be on the board. That isn't a declaration that the rest of the board are perfect either, by the way.

Crumbling already...sweet. Where's all your anti Cowden shit now?

[dougster]

sorry BTU you are missing the point, the representatives of the Supporters club on the Berwick PLC board are just as culpable as any other other director and need to take just as much responsibility as them; therefore, in my opinion should resign, nobody mentioned the supporters club committee.

I don't find the situation 'funny' or 'laughable' at all, I'm angry as you should be that we are in this position.

What i do find funny peculiar is suddenly you are both bringing up the AGM, the voting and barbs aimed at one of the other directors. My aim is at them all, they have a collective responsibility gedditt?

And  in your words, 'oddly' enough I do think there are better people out there who can run the club,and if we do lose our league status,  they could hardly make it worse could they?  

We can't keep going on like this, struggling along and thinking 6th or 7th is a good season, one day our luck will run out, let's hope it's not this season

 

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

1 hour ago, dougster said:

sorry BTU you are missing the point, the representatives of the Supporters club on the Berwick PLC board are just as culpable as any other other director and need to take just as much responsibility as them; therefore, in my opinion should resign, nobody mentioned the supporters club committee.

I don't find the situation 'funny' or 'laughable' at all, I'm angry as you should be that we are in this position.

What i do find funny peculiar is suddenly you are both bringing up the AGM, the voting and barbs aimed at one of the other directors. My aim is at them all, they have a collective responsibility gedditt?

And  in your words, 'oddly' enough I do think there are better people out there who can run the club,and if we do lose our league status,  they could hardly make it worse could they?  

We can't keep going on like this, struggling along and thinking 6th or 7th is a good season, one day our luck will run out, let's hope it's not this season

 

I must have misread that then - apologies.

I didn't say I found our situation funny or laughable, so don't manipulate my words. I said the suggestion that several boards resign en-masse is, because quite frankly, it's an unrealistic proposition for reasons explained in my last post.

I also mentioned the AGM because it had already been brought up. I'm surely entitled to pass comment on something being conversed about without people assuming I have some kind of obsession with it. You're right that the board have a collective responsibility - that I will never disagree with because it's the same theology that applies to any collective group of people with a directive.

What we seem to disagree with on quite massively though, is the point on who'd replace the board if your suggestion was to become a reality. Again, I think you've twisted my words as I have absolutely no doubt that there are people out there that could better run our club. I'd reiterate that my point is that there is no queue of well-qualified people actively putting their name forward. It needs to be considered whether people are even willing candidates, whether they're 'fit and proper', whether they'd have vested interests or an agenda, whether they'd even be adding anything new/better and that's probably all before you even assess things like trying to achieve a balance of expertise, skills & knowledge, or considering the financial implications of any such move. Those criteria alone narrow the field quite hugely.

I don't want to see a full board replaced with shite just to see people 'held to account'. I want the best for Berwick Rangers. Do I want to see change at board level? Probably, yes. But do I want to see that change driven by personal agendas, toxic cumstance and fan division? Absolutely not - because it's genuinely my belief that we'll be straight back at square one in another decade if we do so.

What we do agree on is that we can't keep on going on (on the park) as we have been. As a fan of the team, and ignoring the usual political bollocks that you seem to have to have a view on if you're a Berwick fan, our teams have been nothing short of shite for 10 years. In 3 weeks time we could be on our arse about to be relegated or in yet another comfy lower half position. What has to be recognised is that these are both abhorrent failures for the club and actually, it's these finishes that are putting our league status at risk, not a lack of a trip to Hibs in the cup every year. 

[dougster]

9 minutes ago, berwick-the-unbeatable said:

 

What we do agree on is that we can't keep on going on (on the park) as we have been. As a fan of the team, and ignoring the usual political bollocks that you seem to have to have a view on if you're a Berwick fan, our teams have been nothing short of shite for 10 years. In 3 weeks time we could be on our arse about to be relegated or in yet another comfy lower half position. What has to be recognised is that these are both abhorrent failures for the club and actually, it's these finishes that are putting our league status at risk, not a lack of a trip to Hibs in the cup every year. 

Agreed

[Redcar]

Just because people aren't putting themselves forward to get on the board, doesn't mean they aren't out there.

It's more than possible that they aren't prepared to take sides in the current toxic set up.

Maybe they would be much more likely to come forward if one, other or both sides of the current bickering shambles were to leave.

Always difficult to know where the blame lies for years and years of failure. Probably a mix of both Board and Manager, with a bit of location, fanbase and luck thrown in. One thing is for sure though, and that is that only the Board can make major changes to the general direction and wellbeing of the club. In that (despite their occasional efforts), this lot have demonstrably failed.

[toto1504]

Was watching Real Madrid v Bayern Munich last night. Probably 2 of the biggest teams in the world and I was browsing this thread and had to wonder if their respective boards had as many petty squabbles as ours!.I've known Lenny and Walla for years,2 great guys probably trying their best at running mighty Brfc. But for gods sake work as 1. All row in the same direction otherwise our tinpot club will be no more.

[A Believer]

IMHO, differences of opinions at board level is healthy. It's why companies invite non-exec directors from other companies and industries on to boards; to ensure that things are debated with diversity of views.

The key thing is that when a board discusses board matters, they decide, agree (perhaps by majority) BUT EVERY BOARD MEMBER WALKS OUT UPHOLDING THE BOARD DECISION (whether they agreed or not).

Only the decisions and agreed rationale (that are positively and publicly upheld by 100% of directors) are published to the members.

Anyone not respecting that basic principle, by discussing board matters outside of board is not acting with the integrity expected if a company director.

So all boards disagree, to a new reader like me, it sounds like the perceived disharmony may be helped by the Chair or MD reminding directors that what's discussed in board, stays in board.

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

On 19/04/2017 at 10:35, A Believer said:

IMHO, differences of opinions at board level is healthy. It's why companies invite non-exec directors from other companies and industries on to boards; to ensure that things are debated with diversity of views.

The key thing is that when a board discusses board matters, they decide, agree (perhaps by majority) BUT EVERY BOARD MEMBER WALKS OUT UPHOLDING THE BOARD DECISION (whether they agreed or not).

Only the decisions and agreed rationale (that are positively and publicly upheld by 100% of directors) are published to the members.

Anyone not respecting that basic principle, by discussing board matters outside of board is not acting with the integrity expected if a company director.

So all boards disagree, to a new reader like me, it sounds like the perceived disharmony may be helped by the Chair or MD reminding directors that what's discussed in board, stays in board.

An entirely reasonable post, but I think the issue is that we're way beyond a solution quite as simple as that. Sadly, it's ingrained in the culture. Whether it's a director going to the press to throw a spanner in the works, a director getting pished and too much away or a director employing odd minions with usernames like boardroomshuffler to go on P&B, it's a thing that has plagued the club historically. It's something I'd guess every single board member has been guilty of at one time or another. Some may be frequent offenders, some may even see it as the norm.

But I'd also make a point that not everything should be kept secret. I think the idea of individual directors being responsible for a working group below them to lend expertise, time and other resources would be a healthy proposition and is one I've campaigned for lengthily. Whoever forms the board of directors, there will always be time where others know best and rather than stubbornly always going forward with a suggestion made by one board member who claims to be an expert in finance or marketing, football matters or events because 'they know best', it is surely a more healthy dynamic to discuss matters which are appropriate with a working group full of say 4-6 people with experience, knowledge and expertise in that particular field to thrash out any alternative courses of actions and optimise the chances of success of whichever is eventually agreed upon.

ETA: On the above point, I'd like to make the case that the solution to such tit-for-tat may actually be dramatically increased transparency levels, really, a complete opposite of your suggestion. Working groups are an idea tht would help achieve that IMO and having been part of one at the club I did feel I, and the rest of the guys who attended, could achieve things - it's just a shame it hasn't been more widely adopted.

Looking past all the discussion about things that are happening at a higher-level than on the pitch, it's encouraging to see that despite increasingly desperate-looking circumstances no one is slating the team on here. I hope that the fans are behind the team on Saturday* and should we go a goal down, opt to get behind them and not give inspiration to make the situation even worse!

* posted by someone who might not even be there

[1320Lichtie]

Surprised there's not a lot more people worried in here.

[onecowden]

Surprised there's not a lot more people worried in here.

I suspect they've been looking at Cowdens last three games and thinking - no problem.

[JakeSAFC]

I suspect they've been looking at Cowdens last three games and thinking - no problem.

Not sure why considering the pumping you gave us.

[sammyreidloyal]

They are concerned alright...just not spewing out shite on here

[A Believer]

...and remember that that first goal is not always all that important anyway... it's who gets to the second ball (and the second goal) that really counts, Then you can start to worry if it doesn't  go your way..

Love your posts Mr B; but one can bang a drum just a tad too often. I truly do think everyone has your point [emoji106][emoji4]

[A Believer]

An entirely reasonable post, but I think the issue is that we're way beyond a solution quite as simple as that. Sadly, it's ingrained in the culture. Whether it's a director going to the press to throw a spanner in the works, a director getting pished and too much away or a director employing odd minions with usernames like boardroomshuffler to go on P&B, it's a thing that has plagued the club historically. It's something I'd guess every single board member has been guilty of at one time or another. Some may be frequent offenders, some may even see it as the norm.
But I'd also make a point that not everything should be kept secret. I think the idea of individual directors being responsible for a working group below them to lend expertise, time and other resources would be a healthy proposition and is one I've campaigned for lengthily. Whoever forms the board of directors, there will always be time where others know best and rather than stubbornly always going forward with a suggestion made by one board member who claims to be an expert in finance or marketing, football matters or events because 'they know best', it is surely a more healthy dynamic to discuss matters which are appropriate with a working group full of say 4-6 people with experience, knowledge and expertise in that particular field to thrash out any alternative courses of actions and optimise the chances of success of whichever is eventually agreed upon.
ETA: On the above point, I'd like to make the case that the solution to such tit-for-tat may actually be dramatically increased transparency levels, really, a complete opposite of your suggestion. Working groups are an idea tht would help achieve that IMO and having been part of one at the club I did feel I, and the rest of the guys who attended, could achieve things - it's just a shame it hasn't been more widely adopted.
Looking past all the discussion about things that are happening at a higher-level than on the pitch, it's encouraging to see that despite increasingly desperate-looking circumstances no one is slating the team on here. I hope that the fans are behind the team on Saturday* and should we go a goal down, opt to get behind them and not give inspiration to make the situation even worse!
* posted by someone who might not even be there [emoji185]

I couldn't agree more with Directors who are Subject Matter Experts leading working groups; hell yeah!! Directors are representatives of the club, and the more they interact, canvass, lead such groups is absolutely healthy.

The only caveat is, that once the group has come up with a recommendation that requires board approval, the decision to adopt or not (and the rationale) is published; but not who said what and who disagreed.

Unfortunately some groups might feel that once they agree on a course of action, it must go through. I strongly feel that's the boards place; if it affects finance, company policy or strategy.

Interestingly, does everything go to the board at BRFC? One would assume that matters not affecting finance, company policy or strategy can be implemented by the Manager?

Fingers and toes crossed for Saturday; wish I could be there; and great shout to stay behind the team no matter what. Defining game of the season for me.

[Eric's Rangers]

16 hours ago, berwick-the-unbeatable said:

a director going to the press to throw a spanner in the works

Is that because it doesn't conform to the Supporters Club agenda or some other reason?

The current group of Directors who are also members of the Supporters Club have a very questionable track record.

An employee resigned because of the behaviour of one of them.

Another one somehow managed to convince the Supporters Club committee to spend thousands buying shares from the ex Chairman which meant BRFC PLC was denied that money.

Let's not forget the summer concerts on the pitch which both lost several thousand each.  Both run by these same Directors.

And who the f**k would charge nearly £350 for a corner shelf. Of course, one of the same directors.

It should be of huge concern to the Shareholders that these same people are not only still on the board despite their financial failures, but perhaps more worrying that they won't admit to their incompetence.

[Mr Blobby]

5 hours ago, A Believer said:

Love your posts Mr B; but one can bang a drum just a tad too often. I truly do think everyone has your point

Let's hope the Wee Gers can get the points they need for survival.

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

On 21/04/2017 at 13:05, Eric's Rangers said:

Is that because it doesn't conform to the Supporters Club agenda or some other reason?

The current group of Directors who are also members of the Supporters Club have a very questionable track record.

An employee resigned because of the behaviour of one of them.

Another one somehow managed to convince the Supporters Club committee to spend thousands buying shares from the ex Chairman which meant BRFC PLC was denied that money.

Let's not forget the summer concerts on the pitch which both lost several thousand each.  Both run by these same Directors.

And who the f**k would charge nearly £350 for a corner shelf. Of course, one of the same directors.

It should be of huge concern to the Shareholders that these same people are not only still on the board despite their financial failures, but perhaps more worrying that they won't admit to their incompetence.

You just ignoring the stuff in my post about it being applicable to all directors then?

[Borderer]

On 21 April 2017 at 13:05, Eric's Rangers said:

 

It should be of huge concern to the Shareholders that these same people are not only still on the board despite their financial failures, but perhaps more worrying that they won't admit to their incompetence.

In my experience, people who fail very rarely recognise their own shortcomings. A bit like Del Boy in Only Fools and Horses they believe in "this time next year Rodney". Before you can solve any problem you actually need to recognise there is one.

[HibeeJibee]

Today we have the Berwick manager - a full-time manager let's remember - telling the local paper that if relegation were to occur Berwick wouldn't be able to come back up and could have to be closed-down. Dead. Finished.

If it isn't true and is just an attempt to motivate the players: surely this must be the most desperate throw of the dice possible? Having played this card where do you go if things don't go well at Clyde on Saturday, or it's ultimately a playoff in a fortnight? Will it actually motivate the players, or simply terrify those who care for the club or are contracted for next season?

If it's actually true: why the deafening silence from the board? Very future of the club itself reported to teeter on the brink - but it's left to the manager?

[Redcar]

This most dreadful of seasons just gets worse. For some time now, JC has been even more gloomy than the average fan. Meanwhile, not sure what I expect from Directors/SC/Trust, but I'm fairly sure it's not silence.

Hopefully, Saturday will bring lots of heads out of the sand.