Busta Nut Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 I am pretty sure GA blew the player budget out the water and that's the reason why we have to get more out before more come in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, supermarv said: What I don’t understand is why we have such little budget to make new additions. Yes we have to sell a minimum of one decent player a season to keep us just ticking over. However a small compo for Dean, a decentish fee (approx 300k) for Max. As well as a fee between 500-1mil for KVV. That’s some pretty decent income, paired with others leaving such as Mandron, Goss, most likely Casey. Their wages are gone surely can replace 1/2 for a similar wage. In fairness, @Jim McLean's Ghost explained it in a straightforward way the other day. For all those players have now left we've about half a dozen who were either out on loan or injured back and available while the big cash prize from the unexpected sale of Van Veen goes to mitigating the (presumably sizeable) deficit from our Year of Bad Decisions. On 08/07/2023 at 19:16, Jim McLean's Ghost said: We have a full team of guys who weren't first choice last year coming back. That is where the money is tied up. Connelly O'Donnell Mugabi Lamie McGinley Tierney Maguire Danzaki Mahon Shields Efford Is there anyone there you think is good enough to be starting every week? Or even coming on as a sub. Maybe keep O'Donnell, one of the centre halfs and Efford from that lot. And nothing really against Connelly as a 3rd choice keeper. 20 hours ago, Cloontang said: It would be great to get some insight about what happens behind the scenes at the club. I know we ended up with a bloated squad as we added many new faces in January as we tried to save ourselves from relegation. But it would have been interesting to see how things would have worked out if the likes of Cornelius, Casey, Goss, Johnston etc all accepted new deals. Scott Burns has mentioned we have hit the post on two or three deals whereas we came close to Goss committing again but then the other day it's reported that we need to move players to sign some. Tbh, having listened to Kettlewell's interview earlier I think some people are conflating a few things. He didn't say we didn't have budget available to make offers, he admitted we'd spoken to Mandron about coming back although suggested we weren't able to offer what he was looking for (or words to that effect). The key point I thought he was making is that we need to move players out before we bring others in which is a different thing to not having money to sign players unless we move players on. It's a numbers issue as much as a budget thing. We currently have 24 first team players on the books (including Connelly, Wilson, Campbell, Miller and Mahon) that's pretty much our max. Unless we want to go back to the days of Robinson's 7 and 8 "forwards" and a squad of 28 or 29 bodies then there needs to be some finessing which is the way I took what Kettlewell was saying. Presumably had Cornelius, Casey, Goss, Johnston all accepted the offers we just wouldn't have been making signings to replace them and we'd still have had to ship bodies out to bring things down to a manageable number. Edited July 10, 2023 by capt_oats 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Have we broken Ketts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camer0n_mcd Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 31 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I am pretty sure GA blew the player budget out the water and that's the reason why we have to get more out before more come in. In the 21/22 season we spent just over 500k on player fee's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, camer0n_mcd said: In the 21/22 season we spent just over 500k on player fee's In fairness that came off the back of 2 seasons where we posted almost £4m in profit. 2019/20 - £346,590 2020/21 - £3,575,615 It was a strategic choice and 3 of the players signed that season were sold for fees - nominal or otherwise (Woolery, Johansen and Van Veen). Edited July 10, 2023 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camer0n_mcd Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, capt_oats said: In fairness that came off the back of 2 seasons where we posted almost £4m in profit. 2019/20 - £346,590 2020/21 - £3,575,615 It was strategic choice and 3 of the players signed that season were sold for fees - nominal or otherwise (Woolery, Johansen and Van Veen) Majority of the 20/21 profit was from a Scot Gov loan though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, camer0n_mcd said: Majority of the 20/21 profit was from a Scot Gov loan though It was actually from the Turnbull sale. The accounts literally say it's the biggest factor in the profit: The Government grant and how it's treated is also mentioned in the Strategic Report Edited July 9, 2023 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) There's no doubt we've gone from being very well run to significantly less so in all kinds of areas but I'm not nearly as bothered about the past as the future. Part of it is because like on the pitch, off pitch cycles exist at our level too. And finding a Burrows who both nails it and spends the majority of his life working for us is obviously never going to last. Another part is being very philosophical in the fact that you can do all the theory right and some sporting decisions just don't work out. Everyone was happy we were moving away from the revolving door squad, Kelly, SSJ, Slattery for example, seemed just what we were after. They weren't. It happens. The bigger concern is not losing the odd youth cheaply because they were misjudged, it's that the collective eye has been off the ball for 18 months and there is absolutely no indication we have any idea how to fix it. The 'we' in the above is particularly apt as a fan owned club - ultimately it's on all of us. The knock on effect of being crap and spending emergency money is clear and there's a reason clubs who get sucked into a relegation battle but survive one May often struggle not to be back there the next. I'm not saying we're doomed in season 23/24 by any means (indeed looking at the league I'd back us to stay up) but if you operate increasingly like a lower league club, eventually you'll end up there. Edited July 10, 2023 by Handsome_Devil Typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosser1886 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 9 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Have we broken Ketts? If we keep calling him that we probably will. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I don't think it's as black and white as Ketts makes it out to be. I still think that if a left-back that we were after wanted to sign for us tomorrow, it would still happen, albeit with a subsequent outgoing to balance the books. I think he's trying to temper expectations. For what it's worth, I think the squad that we have currently should have enough about them to top a group with Elgin, East Fife, Queen's Park and Queen of the South in it over four games. Obviously with this format, there are years where top-flight teams make shock exits and who knows, it might be us this season, but it certainly shouldn't be. It's sad to be so flippant with the prospect of being out of one of our two chances to win a trophy before the end of July, but that's the way it is. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as Kettlewell getting rid of the players in the order he wants to. To get a player in, I think we all know he'd quite like to punt Danzaki, but it might be a case that he has to punt a player he was borderline on keeping because somebody actually wants them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Thought that Kettlewell came across well, again, in that interview. Calm and honest and personally I didn't think he sounded anywhere near as frustrated as was suggested in the written versions of the story. I don't think there is any real reason to panic at the moment, as @crazylegsjoe says this squad should have enough to get through our League Cup group. If we're still looking at the same group of players at the start of the league campaign, or when the window 'slams' shut, that's perhaps a different story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 11 hours ago, Busta Nut said: I am pretty sure GA blew the player budget out the water and that's the reason why we have to get more out before more come in. I think the January window might have been the main reason (although the reason for the January window was GA and SH) - financially, we chucked everything at staying up, which is something that we all agreed with at the time to be fair. The decisions taken in Jan/Feb were really successful and did what was needed but they have left a big hangover that will take this season to get rid of. One thing about all this is that pre-season optimism isn't a thing and our expectations are as low as they've been for a few years (I'm currently expecting a 7th-9th type of season) - so if we do anything decent this season, it will be a bonus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) The whole Max Johnston thing is a series of stupid decisions. We chucked him in during the injury/covid/suspension shit under Alexander. He then got the media stuff and we seemed to have him marked as a very promising talent. To then ship him on loan because Alexander's a fucking idiot and fell out with everyone, in the last year of his contract and nothing about it is even questioned is fucking bananas. And that's before you consider that the newly appointed manager was THE FUCKING HEAD OF THE ACADEMY. Honestly lads. We couldn't run a hot bath. Edited July 10, 2023 by well fan for life 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, MurrayWell said: Thought that Kettlewell came across well, again, in that interview. Calm and honest and personally I didn't think he sounded anywhere near as frustrated as was suggested in the written versions of the story. I don't think there is any real reason to panic at the moment, as @crazylegsjoe says this squad should have enough to get through our League Cup group. If we're still looking at the same group of players at the start of the league campaign, or when the window 'slams' shut, that's perhaps a different story. Agree with the above What I was interested in and encouraged with were his comments about finding workable systems to match the players at your disposal. A not so thinly veiled dig that players in our current squad are not as good as those who have left and so I may have to change it up. I think every Well fan agrees with that summary, but we have seen some Managers in the past stick rigidly to a formation / system even when it is patently not working. Quite liked his wee dig at Uncle Roy suggesting teams rein in their spending all the while splashing out on signings and fees for Brophy and others. Tax deductible no doubt….. Edited July 10, 2023 by welldaft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 The chat about needing to move players out before we can bring any in is confusing me slightly. We offered deals to Goss, Casey, Johnston and Cornelius. Obviously none of them have signed but I assume our offers to them weren't based on others leaving so why are we now dependent on getting folk out the door before we can replace those who haven't signed new contracts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Ron Aldo said: The chat about needing to move players out before we can bring any in is confusing me slightly. We offered deals to Goss, Casey, Johnston and Cornelius. Obviously none of them have signed but I assume our offers to them weren't based on others leaving so why are we now dependent on getting folk out the door before we can replace those who haven't signed new contracts? I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. He also mentioned wanting to keep Mandron but could not offer what Mandron was looking for due to size of current squad. Could be interpreted as St Mirren splashing the cash (again) . I actually took that as being kind to Mandron. Perhaps if we did not have Shields we could have signed him. But clearly we need to prioritise other areas before the league season starts. What I would dearly love to know is how many conversations if any have taken place with Shields, Maguire etc to say they may not feature much this season, so crack on and find another club….please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said: The chat about needing to move players out before we can bring any in is confusing me slightly. We offered deals to Goss, Casey, Johnston and Cornelius. Obviously none of them have signed but I assume our offers to them weren't based on others leaving so why are we now dependent on getting folk out the door before we can replace those who haven't signed new contracts? Tbh, @crazylegsjoe_mfc covered it on the previous page - I think some folk are just taking what Kettlewell is saying *far* too literally. 3 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said: I don't think it's as black and white as Ketts makes it out to be. I still think that if a left-back that we were after wanted to sign for us tomorrow, it would still happen, albeit with a subsequent outgoing to balance the books. I think he's trying to temper expectations. It's clear that neither the manager or the recruitment team are sat waiting for someone to move before we make offers to players but we're not about to see a complete overhaul of the squad. In the event of one of those players was to give Kettlewell a phone and say "Yes, I accept your magnificent offer and would love to play for your great wee club." it seems unlikely that our response would be "Sorry, we can't do anything until we get Connor Shields and Riku Danzaki out the door". Equally though, we've a current First Team squad of 24 bodies so it stands to reason that assuming we want to avoid a Robinson style collection of waifs, strays and "can play anywhere across the front 3" forwards then we'll need to move players out to keep things manageable. Edited July 10, 2023 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I forgot we were playing Queens Park ngl. I'm worried they might actually be one of the better Championship teams we've played in the groups so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real-name-hidden Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Has there just been no/little movement at all on bringing in a new chief exec? I’m not 100% on how this works but would the lack of a chief exec impact the ability of the club during transfer/contract negotiations? I see on the football careers website that the position closed from a recruitment perspective on feb 21st…. Has there been no movement at all on this since then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, real-name-hidden said: Has there just been no/little movement at all on bringing in a new chief exec? I’m not 100% on how this works but would the lack of a chief exec impact the ability of the club during transfer/contract negotiations? I see on the football careers website that the position closed from a recruitment perspective on feb 21st…. Has there been no movement at all on this since then? It took a while for this to be confirmed but we've got Derek Weir involved on an interim basis. Weirdly this wasn't actually communicated by the club but was, instead, tagged on at the foot of a Well Society mailshot: It shouldn't really have any impact in terms of transfer/contract negotiations - we've re-signed Obika, Paton extended his contract and we've brought in Wilkinson plus we obviously negotiated KVV's move to Groningen. Where I'd imagine it does have an impact is the Big Picture stuff (that @Handsome_Devil alluded to earlier) with no permanence in that role there's no direction and it appears we're in a weird sort of limbo as a result. We've a load of staff vacancies that remain unfilled, our comms are an absolute fucking shambles and it feels that not having the permanent CEO in place contributes to the sense that we're really just treading water more than anything. That's not to say that the situation around the CEO and us failing to replace Burrows isn't a total riddy given his stepping down was announced on 12th January along with the unfortunate messaging from the club that accompanied it and we're now heading into mid-July but there still seems to be at least a vaguely functioning structure for the moment. Even then, Kettlewell said himself that this was/is only supposed to be a short term thing. Edited July 10, 2023 by capt_oats 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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