Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I saw that Scott Burns said we are paying for last January, but for me our current playing budget is probably paying for years of mismanagement.

Season 2020/21 - Robinson overloads the squad on forwards and ignores massive gaps in defence.
Season 2021/22 - Alexander gets a massive wage bill and spends circa £500k on transfer fees, probably going down the "speculate to accumulate" line, but Slattery and Kelly look set to leave for free this summer.
Season 2022/23 - We sack our manager before the league season starts, then overspend letting the new manager bring his own players in, to then sack him after using two of them for the first time (admittedly deservedly so).
Season 2023/24 - The manager who performed miracles with the squad he inherited is forced to slash his squad massively, with his first eleven often made up of players who were at the club the previous season, but couldn't get in the starting XI.

As for this window, I would sum it up as:

Centre-back: Repurposing SOD as a centre-back, where he has looked very comfortable makes perfect sense, rather than entering the market - especially with our track record of signing centre-backs probably since Aldred left. Aside from Sammon's goal, there's also encouraging signs the Butcher of last season is on his way back.

Wing-backs: There's been much exaggeration for effect. As per @capt_oats formation thing, I would consider McGinn and O'Donnell as centre-backs now. Elliot is a project. We have aspirations to play Gent further forward. We are now in a place where we won't need to use Spittal there for the rest of the season.

Centre midfield: Signing Halliday (as well as Miller returning to fitness) is again another encouraging sign that we won't need to use Spittal as a 6, a sitting midfielder or whatever it's called in FM these days. 

Forwards: Nicholson will hopefully give us other options and perhaps even allow for a change of shape. Gent could end up being decent in that role too. Vale has potential to be a good signing. Would I have wanted another striker? Absolutely. However, there have been plenty of other times in recent past where our squad has only had two number 9s.

I honestly think we will be just about fine this season. It's next season that's giving me the scaries...

 

[Handsome_Devil]

11 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I saw that Scott Burns said we are paying for last January, but for me our current playing budget is probably paying for years of mismanagement.

...

I honestly think we will be just about fine this season. It's next season that's giving me the scaries...

 

I think 20/21 is far enough away to ignore by now....Robinson's approach at least allowed for mega easy cost-cutting. The change in approach under Alexander (which was near universally welcomed) is all fresh line.

For me it's quite clear our current strategic difficulties come from May 22 when we neither backed or sacked him and either lost our nerve on the plan or were forced out of it. On a lower level, simply not replacing Watt was probably a huge sliding doors moment.

Summer 2022 started a chain of 'no good option' decisions and is undoubtedly why the board have clearly said, until it is beyond saving, we're sticking with SK now.

Bizarrely if we survive this season with a wafer-thin squad, we should in theory be a bit more bullish for next term, even allowing for the obvious challenges from the competition. That, and fresh faces in the offices, is a proper base to start from rather than lurching from crisis to crisis as we are now.

[capt_oats]

27 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I saw that Scott Burns said we are paying for last January, but for me our current playing budget is probably paying for years of mismanagement.

Season 2020/21 - Robinson overloads the squad on forwards and ignores massive gaps in defence.
Season 2021/22 - Alexander gets a massive wage bill and spends circa £500k on transfer fees, probably going down the "speculate to accumulate" line, but Slattery and Kelly look set to leave for free this summer.
Season 2022/23 - We sack our manager before the league season starts, then overspend letting the new manager bring his own players in, to then sack him after using two of them for the first time (admittedly deservedly so).
Season 2023/24 - The manager who performed miracles with the squad he inherited is forced to slash his squad massively, with his first eleven often made up of players who were at the club the previous season, but couldn't get in the starting XI.

As for this window, I would sum it up as:

Centre-back: Repurposing SOD as a centre-back, where he has looked very comfortable makes perfect sense, rather than entering the market - especially with our track record of signing centre-backs probably since Aldred left. Aside from Sammon's goal, there's also encouraging signs the Butcher of last season is on his way back.

Wing-backs: There's been much exaggeration for effect. As per @capt_oats formation thing, I would consider McGinn and O'Donnell as centre-backs now. Elliot is a project. We have aspirations to play Gent further forward. We are now in a place where we won't need to use Spittal there for the rest of the season.

Centre midfield: Signing Halliday (as well as Miller returning to fitness) is again another encouraging sign that we won't need to use Spittal as a 6, a sitting midfielder or whatever it's called in FM these days. 

Forwards: Nicholson will hopefully give us other options and perhaps even allow for a change of shape. Gent could end up being decent in that role too. Vale has potential to be a good signing. Would I have wanted another striker? Absolutely. However, there have been plenty of other times in recent past where our squad has only had two number 9s.

I honestly think we will be just about fine this season. It's next season that's giving me the scaries...

Taking @Handsome_Devil's point that it's probably far enough away to ignore but just to add re: that 20/21 season we finished with a playing squad of something like 35 players in the first team squad as a result of various injuries.

The accounts referenced this as having cost us an increase of £650k in Staff Costs and Other Operating Expenses as a result:

Quote

Edited February 2 by capt_oats

[rowsdower]

I'm in agreement with Jay that we did the right thing with KVV. We're almost at a point where we have a clean slate after a couple of years of poor decisions, so blowing up out budget because of sentimentality is a bad idea.

If Hibs did gazump us for a striker, then it looks like we had our hopes pinned on another babysitting project. He might end up being class, but we let sunderland drag us until the last 20 minutes of the window and mess us around rather than moving on to fill a key spot in our team.

[alsybaba]

It's all ok folks!

I have signed the January transfer paperwork and have joined from SteelmenOnline.  I couldn't take it any more.

It's gone downhill rapidly in the last few months as I think a few people have commented on.

Looking forward to the chats ahead.

 

[welldaft]

I see a few comments about a new Manager come the summer.

That imho will only happen if we get relegated.

Stay up in 10th or via the play offs and I see SK in charge for next season. We have spend the last 24 hours discussing how much our budget has been cut back due to mistakes and overspending in previous seasons.

If SK keeps us up this season he should stay in post. And no I am not related to him .

[Busta Nut]

Like has been mentioned, I am ok with the KVV part of things. I was thinking we'd better be involved but not once I heard what Midden/Killie where offering.

Fucking gutted we're short up front though.

[well fan for life]

9 minutes ago, alsybaba said:

It's all ok folks!

I have signed the January transfer paperwork and have joined from SteelmenOnline.  I couldn't take it any more.

It's gone downhill rapidly in the last few months as I think a few people have commented on.

Looking forward to the chats ahead.

 

Welcome. What's your opinion on pakora?

[Busta Nut]

Just now, welldaft said:

I see a few comments about a new Manager come the summer.

That imho will only happen if we get relegated.

Stay up in 10th or via the play offs and I see SK in charge for next season. We have spend the last 24 hours discussing how much our budget has been cut back due to mistakes and overspending in previous seasons.

If SK keeps us up this season he should stay in post. And no I am not related to him .

This all depends on how things move at board level.

The current Chair and CEO don't want the hassle of replacing anyone bar themselves. 
If it drags on I reckon they autorenew SK regardless.

New folk?? I dunno. 

[Desp]

10 minutes ago, alsybaba said:

Looking forward to the chats ahead.

I wouldn't get too excited.  Constant unfunny patter generally on curries...

[Desp]

2 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I see a few comments about a new Manager come the summer.

That imho will only happen if we get relegated.

Stay up in 10th or via the play offs and I see SK in charge for next season. We have spend the last 24 hours discussing how much our budget has been cut back due to mistakes and overspending in previous seasons.

If SK keeps us up this season he should stay in post. And no I am not related to him .

So would Kettlewell want to stay and sign a new deal?  Things only going to get harder.  If he keeps us up this season, he can leave with his head held high.  

[alsybaba]

2 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Welcome. What's your opinion on pakora?

Very enjoyable - sometimes as a wee snack - chicken for me.
Paneers I tried due to reading this but I'm not getting it.

[Desp]

1 minute ago, alsybaba said:

Very enjoyable - sometimes as a wee snack - chicken for me.
Paneers I tried due to reading this but I'm not getting it.

Quite right.  It's fucking terrible.  

Give me a thumbs up for Peshwari Naan and we could be pals.

[Handsome_Devil]

6 minutes ago, welldaft said:

If SK keeps us up this season he should stay in post. And no I am not related to him .

With some caveats I agree now we're here, and I'd previously have binned him. Certainly unless some we'd consider a nailed on improvement hints they're available and that's not going to happen.

The whole point of enduring this season is to have a solid base for the next one. Starting a recruitment process in May to end up with someone who is no more than 50-50 at being better is entirely self-defeating.

[well again]

26 minutes ago, alsybaba said:

It's all ok folks!

I have signed the January transfer paperwork and have joined from SteelmenOnline.  I couldn't take it any more.

It's gone downhill rapidly in the last few months as I think a few people have commented on.

Looking forward to the chats ahead.

Never mind that, are you a striker and what's your goalscoring record like?

[alsybaba]

3 minutes ago, well again said:

32 minutes ago, alsybaba said:

It's all ok folks!

I have signed the January transfer paperwork and have joined from SteelmenOnline.  I couldn't take it any more.

It's gone downhill rapidly in the last few months as I think a few people have commented on.

Looking forward to the chats ahead.

Never mind that, are you a striker and what's your goalscoring record like?

Played up front and then got progressively further back before retiring two years ago forever at the age of 41.
I'm still pacier than Conor Wilkinson though.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Would I have wanted another striker? Absolutely. However, there have been plenty of other times in recent past where our squad has only had two number 9s.

It would be interesting to know if they are even going to bother with free agents or if they've accepted that they blobbed it with a forward and just make do with what we have

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

47 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

With some caveats I agree now we're here, and I'd previously have binned him. Certainly unless some we'd consider a nailed on improvement hints they're available and that's not going to happen.

The whole point of enduring this season is to have a solid base for the next one. Starting a recruitment process in May to end up with someone who is no more than 50-50 at being better is entirely self-defeating.

As @Desp hints at above, he needs to want us as well as us wanting him.

If we go our separate ways, he would be back on Open All Mics and Sportscene the following week. I know which of the two jobs seems preferrable just now. He'd end up on a coaching (perhaps not managing) role somewhere too.

He's taken over here, reshaped a side in danger of relegation and got them to finish a comfortable 7th.

He's then been asked to take that team who were struggling to survive a mere three months later, slash it both in terms of numbers and quality and try to get it to survive. 

If we do survive this season, he could move on with his CV intact. Regardless of the 1 win in 18, All the strikers or no strikers, Spittal at wing-back, Wilkinson in centre-mid patter we've endured, keeping this team in the divison can be viewed as a success.

We've got seven players signed for next season (Casey, Blaney, Davor, Halliday, Paton, Miller, Bair). The players who we would want to keep from this squad (Spittal for example), could possibly stay in the division and up their wages if the St. Mirren stuff we're hearing is true. What does he do then? Go out and try and sign circa 15 players? Give new contracts to those not firing with us currently in a "better the devil you know" situation?

You couldn't argue with his cahones if he took that on, but you also couldn't argue with him walking away from it. 

I'm still not sure to what proportion our shortcomings in the transfer market are split between being his fault and being the environment he's had to shop in.

 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

As @Desp hints at above, he needs to want us as well as us wanting him.

If we go our separate ways, he would be back on Open All Mics and Sportscene the following week. I know which of the two jobs seems preferrable just now. He'd end up on a coaching (perhaps not managing) role somewhere too.

You never know and I've got no idea of his personality, family life, priorities etc but it's rare for folk who are already in this business to walk away for an easy time of it. It's different if you decide immediately it's not for you but having learned at County, got back in the game and taken a chance with us, I'd be utterly amazed if he doesn't want to take on the challenge, even at the risk of failure, to spend Saturday afternoons on Sportsound instead. Professional sports people just don't tend to think like that.

[welldaft]

2 hours ago, Desp said:

So would Kettlewell want to stay and sign a new deal?  Things only going to get harder.  If he keeps us up this season, he can leave with his head held high.  

A fair point. Not something I had thought of actually.

I guess if he has other offers he may well move on. But in the absence of that, he definitely comes across as someone who wants to be a Manager and keeping us in the league is unlikely to excite the bigger clubs. Even if it is quite an achievement given the well documented challenges this season. 

Edit to add - just read the two posts above. Kinda similar thoughts. Also just remembered that I recall reading he was on a building site before he joined Motherwell. So I guess if he had the choice Football management would with us or anyone else be his preference. 

Edited February 2 by welldaft