Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Quatermass]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

I decided a couple of seasons ago I would stop going to Old firm home games. Something I can live without.

Like you I also tend to avoid the result till FT. I did know we were 1-0 up at HT but when I next checked it was 2-1 Celtic. 

Of course I am annoyed but had I watched the game live or even on TV the pain would be many times worse. I get that the joy of winning would be tempered, but since we have not beaten either side of the old firm for 8 years and Rangers for even longer than that then I think it is a safer bet avoiding altogether. 

 

Exactly where I am. Home games are pretty toxic as their fans are (or were when I did go) in the Main Stand as well. Horrible.

Game was on in the background but I certainly wasn’t giving it my full attention. When it went 1-1, I thought it was going to end up a 1-4 defeat or a boot in the plums at the very death. Sigh. It’s not just us that fold so easily, as has been said elsewhere, but it’s very predictable and VERY boring.

If I was to use a bit of vernacular of the footballing world I’d say that my head has went down since it was confirmed that Kettlewell is here till next May (2-23) and all the other potentially more serious chat from the AGM.

The only way this season could get ANY worse at this point is to end up in a play off with Raith Rovers, coast the away tie with a 3-0 win but panic and shite our briefs at home and lose that 4-0.

[Handsome_Devil]

11 minutes ago, Quatermass said:

The only way this season could get ANY worse at this point is to end up in a play off with Raith Rovers, coast the away tie with a 3-0 win but panic and shite our briefs at home and lose that 4-0.

You don't have to worry about that, there's no way we'd keep a clean sheet at Stark's Park.

[camer0n_mcd]

There's no way we'd keep a clean sheet anywhere TBF 

3 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

You don't have to worry about that, there's no way we'd keep a clean sheet at Stark's Park.

 

[Swami]

That should be goal of the season, but it’ll probably go to some Rangers goal that nobody remembers. I actually thought Lennon Miller was rotten today, other than being brilliant for a couple of seconds. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

It'll never not wind me up that we let away teams shoot toward their own fans second half. Even if it's something likely to swing it by about 1%.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

4 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Maybe we did, maybe we didn't... we were clearly dying on our arse having defended almost without respite for 45 minutes. If we don't make the change and concede there would be the same questions for leaving on knackered players. It's one of these losses where as much as it might be entertaining to debate the details, I shrug and say it's simply the question of of their many millions v our few millions. As much as the defence comes under scrutiny in the second half, a better attack would have scored more in the first... I'm much more concerned about taking the same attitude and performance to Livingston and winning that.

There's no doubt that people would be on here asking for subs had they not happened, but for me, disorganisation cost us more than tiredness.

But suppose the five subs do need to take place when they did:

74 minutes - Vale and Casey need to be withdrawn. Bring on Nicholson and Blaney and the other 9 players stay where they are.

84 minutes - Devine and Miller need to be withdrawn. Bring O'Donnell on for Devine, Shaw on for Miller and move Spittal (rather than Nicholson) back into midfield with Davor.

89 minutes - if Gent has to go off, surely Elliot could just about see out stoppage time with a settled defence.

I imagine we prepared for this game with players in a shape and structure we planned to play in. We went from making no changes in the first 74 minutes to ending the game with only 3 of our 10 outfield players in the position they started the game in so I would definitely say there's merit in the shout that changes were at least part of our undoing.

Of course, Wednesday is the bigger game but it's still helluva frustrating not to take anything from today.

[MurrayWell]

16 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

There's no doubt that people would be on here asking for subs had they not happened, but for me, disorganisation cost us more than tiredness.

But suppose the five subs do need to take place when they did:

74 minutes - Vale and Casey need to be withdrawn. Bring on Nicholson and Blaney and the other 9 players stay where they are.

84 minutes - Devine and Miller need to be withdrawn. Bring O'Donnell on for Devine, Shaw on for Miller and move Spittal (rather than Nicholson) back into midfield with Davor.

89 minutes - if Gent has to go off, surely Elliot could just about see out stoppage time with a settled defence.

I imagine we prepared for this game with players in a shape and structure we planned to play in. We went from making no changes in the first 74 minutes to ending the game with only 3 of our 10 outfield players in the position they started the game in so I would definitely say there's merit in the shout that changes were at least part of our undoing.

Of course, Wednesday is the bigger game but it's still helluva frustrating not to take anything from today.

Spot on assessment. The subs were all over the place today. I do want Kettlewell to do well, but the insistence on shoehorning the likes of Paton (granted not today) and Butcher into the team does him no favours. Butcher looks done at this level, today was one of the most amateur substitute performances I've seen from an experienced player, whose job, you'd imagine, was to calm the team and organise. 

[welldaft]

2 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Spot on assessment. The subs were all over the place today. I do want Kettlewell to do well, but the insistence on shoehorning the likes of Paton (granted not today) and Butcher into the team does him no favours. Butcher looks done at this level, today was one of the most amateur substitute performances I've seen from an experienced player, whose job, you'd imagine, was to calm the team and organise. 

His form has been very poor since he came back from injury. Both he and Casey were outstanding end of last season. But it is one year on for Butcher and Casey is reminding us why he is at Motherwell. A perfectly serviceable CB at our level but could do better.

Chasing Celtic around the pitch is tiring I would imagine. We definitely had the edge 1st half but we still had less than 30% possession. It takes a toll. The problem is our substitutions weaken the team. Celtics don’t and in fact arguably strengthen their team. 

Hopefully we can play like we did 1st half v Livi. However there is no way they are not scoring. A team that will launch everything into our box from long throws, their GK, dead balls. It will be like the Alamo. martindale will surely know that is our Achilles heel. 

 

[wellboy1991]

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

There's no doubt that people would be on here asking for subs had they not happened, but for me, disorganisation cost us more than tiredness.

But suppose the five subs do need to take place when they did:

74 minutes - Vale and Casey need to be withdrawn. Bring on Nicholson and Blaney and the other 9 players stay where they are.

84 minutes - Devine and Miller need to be withdrawn. Bring O'Donnell on for Devine, Shaw on for Miller and move Spittal (rather than Nicholson) back into midfield with Davor.

89 minutes - if Gent has to go off, surely Elliot could just about see out stoppage time with a settled defence.

I imagine we prepared for this game with players in a shape and structure we planned to play in. We went from making no changes in the first 74 minutes to ending the game with only 3 of our 10 outfield players in the position they started the game in so I would definitely say there's merit in the shout that changes were at least part of our undoing.

Of course, Wednesday is the bigger game but it's still helluva frustrating not to take anything from today.

Agreed, that makes too much sense. Butcher no where near that team to allow Idah to run him ragged. Absolute shell of the player from prior to his injury. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

19 minutes ago, wellboy1991 said:

Agreed, that makes too much sense. Butcher no where near that team to allow Idah to run him ragged. Absolute shell of the player from prior to his injury. 

I also think him coming off the bench and getting up to speed is probably more challenging than him starting a game.

I thought he was regaining a bit of form pre Pittodrie, but there's some definite regressing again.

[ropy]

Everyone around me was shouting for subs but the number of changes to accommodate those we made was counter productive.  Big Bevis is limited but standing in the middle of a three and heading away balls is his thing, he also got in behind to cover the odd attack down the flanks.  Leave him there, don’t confuse him.

However I think the last 2 minutes is colouring the views of the performance which was largely good.  Not good enough and no points but good.  I hope the outcome doesn’t take it out of the team before Wednesday.  A win would be excellent but a draw and some favourable other results wouldn’t be the end of the world.  Surely Butcher won’t be risked on the carpet?

[Wellin]

5 hours ago, Quatermass said:

Exactly where I am. Home games are pretty toxic as their fans are (or were when I did go) in the Main Stand as well. Horrible.

Game was on in the background but I certainly wasn’t giving it my full attention. When it went 1-1, I thought it was going to end up a 1-4 defeat or a boot in the plums at the very death. Sigh. It’s not just us that fold so easily, as has been said elsewhere, but it’s very predictable and VERY boring.

If I was to use a bit of vernacular of the footballing world I’d say that my head has went down since it was confirmed that Kettlewell is here till next May (2-23) and all the other potentially more serious chat from the AGM.

The only way this season could get ANY worse at this point is to end up in a play off with Raith Rovers, coast the away tie with a 3-0 win but panic and shite our briefs at home and lose that 4-0.

I don't feel that way about Kettlewell. I think he genuinely wants the best for Motherwell. My head has gone down because it's been so negative on social media over the last few years. People are also completely entitled to their opinions but seriously, some of the stuff that's been flung his way on social media has been way over the top as far as I'm concerned. And if we are struggling which we are. I dont think he's the only person at fault 

[Wellin]

3 hours ago, welldaft said:

His form has been very poor since he came back from injury. Both he and Casey were outstanding end of last season. But it is one year on for Butcher and Casey is reminding us why he is at Motherwell. A perfectly serviceable CB at our level but could do better.

Chasing Celtic around the pitch is tiring I would imagine. We definitely had the edge 1st half but we still had less than 30% possession. It takes a toll. The problem is our substitutions weaken the team. Celtics don’t and in fact arguably strengthen their team. 

Hopefully we can play like we did 1st half v Livi. However there is no way they are not scoring. A team that will launch everything into our box from long throws, their GK, dead balls. It will be like the Alamo. martindale will surely know that is our Achilles heel. 

 

They are rotten. Hopefully they'll have an off day. 

[Ron Aldo]

5 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

There's no doubt that people would be on here asking for subs had they not happened, but for me, disorganisation cost us more than tiredness.

But suppose the five subs do need to take place when they did:

74 minutes - Vale and Casey need to be withdrawn. Bring on Nicholson and Blaney and the other 9 players stay where they are.

84 minutes - Devine and Miller need to be withdrawn. Bring O'Donnell on for Devine, Shaw on for Miller and move Spittal (rather than Nicholson) back into midfield with Davor.

89 minutes - if Gent has to go off, surely Elliot could just about see out stoppage time with a settled defence.

I imagine we prepared for this game with players in a shape and structure we planned to play in. We went from making no changes in the first 74 minutes to ending the game with only 3 of our 10 outfield players in the position they started the game in so I would definitely say there's merit in the shout that changes were at least part of our undoing.

Of course, Wednesday is the bigger game but it's still helluva frustrating not to take anything from today.

Bang on and this is where my frustration lies with Kettlewell. 

If a fan on a football forum can come up with this then surely a professional football manager should be able to. 

[Handsome_Devil]

8 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

There's no doubt that people would be on here asking for subs had they not happened, but for me, disorganisation cost us more than tiredness.

But suppose the five subs do need to take place when they did:

74 minutes - Vale and Casey need to be withdrawn. Bring on Nicholson and Blaney and the other 9 players stay where they are.

84 minutes - Devine and Miller need to be withdrawn. Bring O'Donnell on for Devine, Shaw on for Miller and move Spittal (rather than Nicholson) back into midfield with Davor.

89 minutes - if Gent has to go off, surely Elliot could just about see out stoppage time with a settled defence.

I imagine we prepared for this game with players in a shape and structure we planned to play in. We went from making no changes in the first 74 minutes to ending the game with only 3 of our 10 outfield players in the position they started the game in so I would definitely say there's merit in the shout that changes were at least part of our undoing.

That's mostly what I'd have done though I don't think throwing Elliott on for his debut would have been without risk, even for five minutes....and I can see the logic of having Nicholson's fresher legs deeper while leaving in-form Spittal higher on the hope there's a half chance from 25 yards.

But in general the point about tiredness v disorganisation is very valid. I said to someone the other day that for financial reasons next season we should forget using 16 players from a match day 20 but aim for 14 from 18 (with kids there for emergencies). I'm not convinced it'll hurt us that much.

[StAndrew7]

20 hours ago, Cedrics Mighty Well Army said:

It's not been a bad winter but it's been a wet one. Few opportunities for the pitch to dry out over a period of days.

Aye, just on this; the Livi game tore it to shreds as it pissed it down the entire match.

Also, I know from the greenkeepers at Wishaw Golf Club that there's been over 3 metres of rain there since October, I would imagine it'll be similar at FP.

It was addressed at the AGM; they're hopeful a dry spell and warmer weather it'll start to look better. It's still playing well, though, according to the players.

Edited February 26 by StAndrew7

[MurrayWell]

If ever there was an image that sums up our defending this season...

[Luke92]

We've seen that movie yesterday so many times against Celtic, the inevitability about it was there for all to see. As infuriating as it was, after the 6th time seeing exactly the same thing I am starting to get a bit numbed to it. My main takeaways are in-line with what we knew about the team already:

• The drop off in quality to the bench is huge (see striker situation)
• The majority of the players are mentally weak and struggle to deal with any type of adversity and/or pressure (see multiple examples of us shitting the bed)
• We can't defend and continue to gift team goals - the manager also can't seem to remedy this problem through coaching as he mentions it repeatedly

On the subs, I think most folk crying out for changes were wanting something to be changed to try to get us up the pitch and stop the onslaught which was only going to end in one way. Unfortunately we have noone on the bench who can really do that.

The reality of the situation is we end up changing 3 of the 5 defenders prior to them scoring their two goals. To me, there is a question about concentration, I don't think someone coming on for 5 mins can be instantly as tuned in as someone who has been playing for 84 mins.

Anyway, same old story on to Livi. If we don't beat Livi there is scope for us to get sucked into the play off situation..

[CoF]

5 sub rule is shit.

[well fan for life]

1 minute ago, CoF said:

5 sub rule is shit.

The 5 sub rule only benefits teams with the budget to fill a bench with quality players. With us filling the bench with either kids or terrible footballers it actively makes us worse if we use all 5 subs. I understood it during covid & just after but we should stick it in the bin now.