Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Wellin]

15 minutes ago, Swello said:

I think if we jump at every poorly chosen word from sportswriters, we're in for a long few months. The reality is that the deal isn't at a point where is it ready to be presented to shareholders and the WS, so at worst, this is a leak/rumour from current discussions - at best it's just poorly phrased when lifting from the BBC interview.

The netflix guy is at perfect liberty to propose to take the majority stake and lay out why that's a good thing and in our long term interests - but the WS (and private shareholders) are equally at liberty to say "thanks but no thanks" - so I'm not really seeing any reason to go off the deep end at this point.

Lastly - if simple profit/return on investment was the guy's main motive - he'd likely be nowhere near us.

I think that article is a bit more than poorly chosen to be fair. Saying that the new investor wants to take majority control when there's nothing to evidence that at this point. 

[Al B]

I take the point that we can't think of ways that an outside investor could make any money from Scottish football, so we should be wary of anyone who thinks they can, but isn't that the point of us trying to look outside the "bubble" so to speak?

Sort of like a "is there anyone out there that can think of ways to generate business income that we haven't thought of, and are you able to fascilitate that."

I hate using Wrexham as an example because it sounds like I'm jumping on some "ooooh we're the new Wrexham" thing which I'm absolutely not, but as it's an easy comparison to make:

No-one involved with Wrexham would have been able to think of a way to increase replica shirt sales. It's extremely unlikely any external businessman from Wrexham would have been able to come up with a way to increase replica shirt sales. Even if you expanded that out to the rest of Wales or even the UK, it's unlikely you'd have found any businessman that could sell a Wrexham shirt to anyone that wasn't in, or from Wrexham. It was effectively a closed market with a finite ceiling.

A businessman/men then comes on board who's, lets face it, an expert in exposure and global marketing who has the means to also fascilitate it, and they had sold nearly 25,000 22/23 replica shirts by the January of that season. That's almost £1.5 million in half a season, and that's only going to increase. Say just for the sake of choosing a completely random return - Reynolds and McElhinney's own company take 25% of all merch sales.

Now again just to clarify I'm not directly comparing us to Wrexham, our situation to theirs, or for a second thinking that that's what's going to happen to us. I'm just saying that for me, the mindset of "no-one's going to be able to make any more money from this than we already are, because we can't think of any other way to generate it", is exactly why we're moving out-with the confines of what we can think of, because there's an absolute f**k-ton of things out there that no-one involved with Motherwell can think of.

All with the caveat that we can say no thanks if it seems they want too much in return? It's hard for me to believe that there's anyone that wouldn't want to explore it to it's fullest given those conditions.

Edited April 12 by Al B

[StAndrew7]

3 minutes ago, Al B said:

.

Hear hear.

This is a far more erudite way of saying what I tried to earlier in the thread; just because none of us can think of a way for it to work, doesn't mean there's no way for it to work. 

[Doctor Manhattan]

9 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

POTY votes out now. I mean, it's Spittal obviously, but I'm not having a Hearts w**k as our player of the year, so it's Theo.

Aye, only one likely winner, but I suspect the votes will be well distributed given the number of worthy contenders. Wouldn't be surprised to see Casey and Miller pick some up, and couldn't grudge Gent getting a few as well.

If Liam Kelly gets anything >0 this season then the fix is in.

[Wellin]

1 minute ago, Doctor Manhattan said:

Aye, only one likely winner, but I suspect the votes will be well distributed given the number of worthy contenders. Wouldn't be surprised to see Casey and Miller pick some up, and couldn't grudge Gent getting a few as well.

If Liam Kelly gets anything >0 this season then the fix is in.

There's only six players on the list. Kelly and Casey aren't on it. 

[Doctor Manhattan]

Just now, Wellin said:

There's only six players on the list. Kelly and Casey aren't on it. 

Well f**k me, that'll teach me to type first and look later! 

[MurrayWell]

Canny wait for Eric Nicholson's weird column after Theo wins it.

[capt_oats]

33 minutes ago, Al B said:

I take the point that we can't think of ways that an outside investor could make any money from Scottish football, so we should be wary of anyone who thinks they can, but isn't that the point of us trying to look outside the "bubble" so to speak?

Sort of like a "is there anyone out there that can think of ways to generate business income that we haven't thought of, and are you able to fascilitate that."

I hate using Wrexham as an example because it sounds like I'm jumping on some "ooooh we're the new Wrexham" thing which I'm absolutely not, but as it's an easy comparison to make:

No-one involved with Wrexham would have been able to think of a way to increase replica shirt sales. It's extremely unlikely any external businessman from Wrexham would have been able to come up with a way to increase replica shirt sales. Even if you expanded that out to the rest of Wales or even the UK, it's unlikely you'd have found any businessman that could sell a Wrexham shirt to anyone that wasn't in, or from Wrexham. It was effectively a closed market with a finite ceiling.

A businessman/men then comes on board who's, lets face it, an expert in exposure and global marketing who has the means to also fascilitate it, and they had sold nearly 25,000 22/23 replica shirts by the January of that season. That's almost £1.5 million in half a season, and that's only going to increase.

Now again just to clarify I'm not directly comparing us to Wrexham, our situation to theirs, or for a second thinking that that's what's going to happen to us. I'm just saying that for me, the mindset of "no-one's going to be able to make any more money from this than we already are, because we can't think of any other way to generate it", is exactly why we're moving out-with the confines of what we can think of.

I know people are tying themselves in knots over the majority shareholding thing but the part that I keep bumping against is that there's absolutely nothing in Barmack's background or CV that suggests that either he or his wife actually want to own a football club, let alone a Scottish football club, let alone a mid-tier Scottish football club at that.

I can understand why in any normal circumstance an investor would say, "I'm putting in X amount, I want X% ownership" but I guess there's a chance that doesn't actually matter as long as he's protected and there's scope for him to benefit.

I'm kind of in a similar place to @Al B above in thinking that there's a chance that people are getting too focussed on the Scottish football 'bubble' or "how can he make money from Motherwell?" (answer: he probably can't) rather than a more general question of "how can he make money?".

Which is a very different proposition.

Based on the US culture/media pods I listen to (*waves at The Ringer*) the general feeling is that the next big market for the streamers in going to be live sport/events . Apple already have the rights to MLS & MLB, Netflix aired the SAG awards live etc.

Both Barmack and his missus hold/have held senior positions at ESPN, Netflix, Google, Snapchat etc does a small stakes investment in a small market league give them any benefit down the line when the media landscape changes.

Although, having said that there's an argument that Scottish Fitba' is still too beholden to more "traditional" broadcast agreements I'd argue that there's probably more likelihood that they'd be able to make some sort of ROI in this sort of market rather than expecting any sort of profit via the Football Club.

I mean, I absolutely cannot wait for our Twitter bio to change to "We exist to connect dots between big media companies and fanbases" but ultimately that's his business (not making money out football clubs).

Edited April 12 by capt_oats

[Self-raising Lazarus]

55 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I can deny that was decent. 
He however did what he said he would and helped the club transition to fan owned. Different scenario but I agree you got me.

Not trying to "get you" in fairness, I'm equally skeptical. But it's a case of wait and see for me. There's the potential for this to be positive for the club and perhaps the community, and that shouldn't be dismissed by the fanbase before the details are made available.

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I know people are tying themselves in knots over the majority shareholding thing but the part that I keep bumping against is that there's absolutely nothing in Barmack's background or CV that suggests that either he or his wife actually want to own a football club, let alone a Scottish football club, let alone a mid-tier Scottish football club at that.

I can understand why in any normal circumstance an investor would say, "I'm putting in X amount, I want X% ownership" but I guess there's a chance that doesn't actually matter as long as he's protected and there's scope for him to benefit.

I'm kind of in a similar place to @Al B above in thinking that there's a chance that people are getting too focussed on the Scottish football 'bubble' or "how can he make money from Motherwell?" (answer: he probably can't) rather than a more general question of "how can he make money?".

Excellent points from the both of you and as someone who is very concerned about the 51% thing, EB with his (presumed) attitude is someone who I'd absolutely love to have on board if the deal is right.

And of course we can wait and see the written offer but then what would we do when we're supposed to be working all day?

 

[Self-raising Lazarus]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

He was literally born a few* miles from the stadium!

*Taking a liberty with few here but Lanarkshire's not that big.

And wasn't Craig whyte born in Motherwell? Would his proximity to the club mean he wouldve been any better for motherwell than he was for Rangers? 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

And wasn't Craig whyte born in Motherwell? Would his proximity to the club mean he wouldve been any better for motherwell than he was for Rangers? 

Probably not, though I don't see the relevance of your point?

[Self-raising Lazarus]

Just now, Handsome_Devil said:

Probably not, though I don't see the relevance of your point?

You cited les being from the area. I think where you're from doesn't have a massive bearing on whether you'll be positive or negative for a club.

[StAndrew7]

5 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Although, having said that there's an argument that Scottish Fitba' is still too beholden to more "traditional" broadcast agreements I'd argue that there's probably more likelihood that they'd be able to make some sort of ROI in this sort of market rather than expecting any sort of profit via the football club.

This is exactly the kind of thing that an investor with a background like Barmack's (and his wife's and potential other investors... Elizabeth, I'm looking at you ) should be looking to leverage/change and introduce as new revenue streams for the club and develop that into something bigger... We all know there are some right donkeys in charge of the game here, negotiating poor TV deals which lack the "beefiness" compared to what you would argue are near similar standards of league in Europe (Holland springs to mind) have received, as well as the poor overall quality of the coverage and issues with providers over the last 5+ years.

Someone with knowledge of how to break that cycle, or at the very least disrupt it, could really help transform the national game, not just Motherwell.

Now, that's probably wishful thinking but why can't we think that way? The CV is there, I'd argue.

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

You cited les being from the area. I think where you're from doesn't have a massive bearing on whether you'll be positive or negative for a club.

Ah, right. You replied to a question asking if any foreigner  had taken over and been a long-term success, I was just meaning LH was not.

Being local certainly isn't the only - or even main - factor in whether you're a positive or negative but for me at least it establishes some credibility.

Les came in with a clear motive and exit strategy - stabilising his local club and handing it over to the community. 

Of course he could have screwed us over but there was more reason to believe him than some guy who stuck a pin in a map and decided he looks good in claret and amber.

I freely admit I'm sceptical of him, even though I like the idea of what he could bring, but I'm happy to see the details. 

I just think the attitude of some fans - claiming fan ownership has failed and giving the impression they'd bend over instantly for any cheque - is incredibly dangerous.

[CoF]

2 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

(Also a non-NDA would be a disclosure agreement, lol )

Apparently the French sign non-non-non disclosure agreements. 
 

 

[Swello]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

I absolutely cannot wait for our Twitter bio to change

And so say all of us.

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

Yeah I wasn't sure about the uproar about the article either. 

I didn't actually realise there was uproar about the article then I looked at Steelmen.

Fucking hell.

[GNU_Linux]

Anyone pressed Mr Netflix as to what his policy is on paneer? Might sway a few votes imo

[Doctor Manhattan]

5 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I didn't actually realise there was uproar about the article then I looked at Steelmen.

Fucking hell.

I don't normally mind Steelmen, but I've been avoiding it lately because it's going through one of its periodic phases of being dominated by a small number of people who seem to think they have to post every single thought that flits briefly across their minds, usually followed by "It's all about opinions" when anyone sensible points out that they're talking bollocks.