Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Radford]

1 minute ago, Mr Heliums said:

• At its worst, his football was no less eye-bleeding than latter-day Calum Davidson.

Of course, the big difference was that if results weren't forthcoming, he'd try something different. 

The problem with Davidson wasn't the crap football, it was his apparent indifference towards it.

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, Radford said:

Of course, the big difference was that if results weren't forthcoming, he'd try something different. 

The problem with Davidson wasn't the crap football, it was his apparent indifference towards it.

This was it for me, be it stubbornness, arrogance, being shit scared or just not having a clue, Davidson not changing things whether during or inbetween games was a big part of his downfall.

 

Along with almost everything else obviously.

[Honest Saints Fan]

17 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

A few folk wanting Tommy back short-term. But not sure why he'd agree to that. Wouldn't his pride - and his record - expect a permanent post? And that would give me a few concerns:

• Tommy had had enough of the club in 2020. What's changed so much internally that he can come back and suffer none of the frictions that irritated him before? 

Kristen Robertson.

[Radford]

I'm not surprised Gus MacPherson came across well last night. I thought he spoke well on Saints TV a couple of months ago and his footballing career and character is a good fit for Saints.

A guy that really does have proper footballing experience that should benefit us. Having a guy that knows Scottish football and Saints in his role maybe opens up the door to bringing in a coach that wouldn't be so aware of those things, like someone like Darrell Clarke as mentioned above.

[mizfit]

14 minutes ago, Radford said:

I'm not surprised Gus MacPherson came across well last night. I thought he spoke well on Saints TV a couple of months ago and his footballing career and character is a good fit for Saints.

A guy that really does have proper footballing experience that should benefit us. Having a guy that knows Scottish football and Saints in his role maybe opens up the door to bringing in a coach that wouldn't be so aware of those things, like someone like Darrell Clarke as mentioned above.

His discussion on youth and how you handle them sounded like a lot of internal frustration at the lack of opportunities. 
 

You’d hope whatever manager arrives understands our recent success with youth and would be willing to encourage it.

[Widge]

If we're serious about bringing youth guys through and based on what we're doing at under 15/16 level we really should be, then you'd ideally have Sinclair and Max playing 20/30 games next season and either giving Ferguson a chance or getting him out on loan to a higher level.

Also picking up on the out of contract players, realistically the only one you'd actually want to keep is Wotherspoon, but I think that's sentimentality and a presence around the club more than anything. I'd also keep Brown, but he's away back down south. If there was an option to bring Mitchell in permanently I'd take it, possibly the same for Montgomery, but other than them, the loan players can all go back to their respective clubs. All of a sudden, that massive squad we have and need to reduce has suddenly shrunk substantially whilst still carrying a bit of deadwood. Whilst our budget might not be as large next season, there is plenty of scope for any new manager to bring in their own players and start to overturn the squad window by window. As by this time the year after, the likes of Considine, Carey, Crawford, etc. will all be close to retiring or not getting new contracts at which point you'd hopefully have integrated the young guys fully and have them established, with the next set of 17/18 year olds coming through and repeat. 

[Molotov]

1 minute ago, mizfit said:

His discussion on youth and how you handle them sounded like a lot of internal frustration at the lack of opportunities. 
 

You’d hope whatever manager arrives understands our recent success with youth and would be willing to encourage it.

When St Mirren manager Gus would often not even fill a bench up with youth academy graduates if we had injuries or suspensions to first team players. 

One reason behind that could be the youth academy would receive a small financial contribution if a youth academy player got to first team squad that came out of the managers first team budget. 

IIRC Gus wanted rid of Kenny McLean when he was in our youth structure. 

Gus can blow hot and cold at these fan events.

Sometimes comes across as a good guy other times he’s a grumpy auld git who thinks that fans know nothing about football as they never played at pro level.

[Molotov]

All managers face that dilemma when in charge of first team affairs. 
They know that the only way to survive in the job is to get results.

Do you go for the experience of an older player used to pro-football or a youth player?

More often than not managers go for the former. 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Molotov

[RandomGuy.]

52 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

A few folk wanting Tommy back short-term. But not sure why he'd agree to that. Wouldn't his pride - and his record - expect a permanent post? And that would give me a few concerns:

I think he'll want to have some success after being branded a failure at Killie. Winning 1/2 games for us would see that happen. Could give him a proper farewell to Saints fans too (imagine the last day game v United at McDiarmid when we could relegate them with TW in charge...). As for longer term he might want that but he might not, he might be enjoying some peace at the end of his career.

For us we need a personality if we're going short term. Suspect the players need someone to come in, give them energy and confidence, but who also isnt a clown (John Hughes...). The fans definitely need something like that.

I just struggle to see a better option if we're just looking for a 5 game boost.

[tree house tam]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Imagine the last day game v United at McDiarmid when we could relegate them with TW in charge...

Or on the other hand imagine United relegating us at Mcdiarmid in Tommy's farewell game?

I felt a wee bit sick as I typed that.

[Mr Heliums]

20 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think he'll want to have some success after being branded a failure at Killie. Winning 1/2 games for us would see that happen. Could give him a proper farewell to Saints fans too (imagine the last day game v United at McDiarmid when we could relegate them with TW in charge...). As for longer term he might want that but he might not, he might be enjoying some peace at the end of his career.

I'm not sure I can offer a better suggestion short-term, but I can understand the club hoping for some sort of response on Saturday, irrespective of who is in the dugout, which may see us near-enough safe. (Should we win on Saturday, I'd bet there will already be fans suggesting that Macca should get the post permanently.)

I just worry that some fans calling for Tommy are doing so for sentimental, rather than practical, reasons. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Mr Heliums

[RandomGuy.]

18 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Or on the other hand imagine United relegating us at Mcdiarmid in Tommy's farewell game?

I felt a wee bit sick as I typed that.

Get John Hughes in.

7 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

I just worry that some fans calling for Tommy are doing so for sentimental, rather than practical, reasons. 

Undoubtedly be a tinge of that, and its understandable tbh.

I only want him if its short term. His time with us is done but one last dance and a proper farewell feels perfect for our situation.

We then hit the reset button as a club this Summer with new owners, new manager, new pitch and hopefully a vibrant young squad. Could revitalise a club growing stale.

[tree house tam]

Someone from outside the club, recall all loan players  have a look then keep the club up. Is my take on it.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Someone from outside the club, recall all loan players  have a look then keep the club up. Is my take on it.

This, if they find the right person, is ideal. Let them sift through the shite before the Summer and plan the rebuild.

Guess it depends if theyve been looking at replacements for a while?

[PSJ.84]

Not sure if it’s even possible but the thought of Vertainen scoring the goal to keep us up would be rather amusing 

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

17 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Someone from outside the club, recall all loan players  have a look then keep the club up. Is my take on it.

 

6 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

Not sure if it’s even possible but the thought of Vertainen scoring the goal to keep us up would be rather amusing 

Very much doubt either of these is possible. Fairly confident you can't recall someone outside the window and then play them. 

[gingermunkie]

26 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

 

Very much doubt either of these is possible. Fairly confident you can't recall someone outside the window and then play them. 

yeah did we not technically have Sinclair back on emergency loan earlier in the season. 

[The Marly]

4 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

A few folk wanting Tommy back short-term. But not sure why he'd agree to that. Wouldn't his pride - and his record - expect a permanent post? And that would give me a few concerns:

• Tommy had had enough of the club in 2020. What's changed so much internally that he can come back and suffer none of the frictions that irritated him before? 
• That aside, Tommy left – I think – because he recognised he was struggling to maintain Saints' status and his own reputation. Year over year you can trace a decline in Saints' quality and achievements from 2013-2020. What evidence is there that Tommy can rebuild from a lower base? He tended to re-sign the same players (until that stopped working) and in all his years I can't think of a decent striker that he signed (Calum Hendry the only partial success).
• At its worst, his football was no less eye-bleeding than latter-day Calum Davidson.

Even if he did get him back short-term, I don't follow the assumption that he'd turn things around. Kilmarnock made the mistake of thinking the same thing.

I'd like Tommy short term because I can't think of a better option at the moment. I don't think there was much of a decline in Saints quality between 2013 and 2020.  You have to remember that Sevco, Hearts and Hibs all came back in to the league which probably led to slightly lower league positions but Tommy rebuilt the team with exciting young players.  Maybe we wouldn't have won the double with Tommy in charge (that's something we will never know) but I am absolutely certain that Tommy would have made a better ob of rebuilding that team after the sales of Kerr and McCann.  As for the last point I can't remember Tommy's team ever being as negative as Callum's, but the football can be as eye-bleeding as f**k as long as we finish tenth or above.

[RandomGuy.]

Not a clue how accurate it is, but this guy...

... reckons we'll be at home to Motherwell, United and Livingston, and away to County and Kilmarnock, if Livingston are in the bottom half.

[mizfit]

There’s no reason why we can’t take advantage of that if it’s the case.